Welcome back to WDYTT, the only hockey column on the internet being written under -38 Celsius conditions.
Speaking of things we’ve all had enough of, how about people putting words in the mouths of the Vancouver Canucks fanbase?
Every night, it seems, we’re being told what Canucks fans think and feel by players, pundits, and managerial types. And, as the official Voice of the People™ in this market, we’re starting to take some serious umbrage with that.
The worst of it comes when folks try to apply grand, sweeping opinions to this enormous and diverse collection of supporters. If you’ve been around long enough, you know exactly what we’re driving at here: this notion that the Vancouver market “wouldn’t support a real rebuild.”
We’ve all heard it said before. Even worse, we’ve all heard that reasoning applied to some seriously questionable personnel decisions. But is it even close to true?
What better place to find out than right here, right now?
This week, we’re asking you:
<h1>Would you, as a fan of the Vancouver Canucks, support a proper rebuild?</h1>
Let it be known in the comment section.
<a href="https://canucksarmy.com/news/wwydw-thoughts-canucks-tanking-final-contract-offers-bo-horvat">Last week, we asked:</a>
<h1>What would be your final/maximum contract offer for Bo Horvat?</h1>
You answered below!
FV Fan:
I actually don&#8217;t think there is an offer Bo will take. My guess is he has told the team he is playing out the contract so he can control where he goes.
Enough losing is my guess.
Why would any player want this in a Canadian market.? If they were winning, or have an actual plan, that may be different.
Bo is a stand-up guy and has bled Canuck Blue for the most part his whole career.
Time to move on and go somewhere with less optics, a team with an actual plan, an ownership focused more on the Cup and less on money. None of that is available in Vancouver right now. Hope that can one day change.
Kootenaydude:
Extending Miller was a mistake. Extending Boeser was a mistake. Extending Horvat would be a mistake. We all know how bad these long-term contracts end up being. Yet, when people like the player, they suddenly forget how bad a long-term contract will be for the team. I would like to see a reset and move all of Miller, Boeser, and Horvat.
BeerCan Boyd:
Doesn&#8217;t matter what our final offer is, does it? The Canucks have made theirs, and he and his agent said ‘no.’ He might find some team that will pay him $8 mill per, but he might not. Kadri didn&#8217;t, and IMO, he&#8217;s a much more complete player, albeit four years older. There are so many contradictions in Bo&#8217;s game. A great faceoff man who is no more than average defensively. A goal-scoring centre who can&#8217;t pass the puck. 215 lbs, but plays much softer than his weight. A team captain, who seems void of emotion at times.
Bo&#8217;s time in Vancouver is done, let&#8217;s just hope our management group is able to get something that will help in the future for him. Not a guarantee, given that he is undoubtably going to test the market in the offseason, and that for some inexplicable reason, the Canucks are not giving his agent the opportunity to talk with potential trade partners.
Rusty Bee:
Unbelievable that we are having this conversation about a career 0.65 PPG player that is no longer able to consistently drive a line 5on5 against top-six competition while still in his prime years as a 28 year old. Not to mention, a player who has so far scored 30 goals ONCE (twice if he maintains his current rate of production for this season). Looking at the stats, his player career high assist total is 34 and he has had over 30 assists THREE times in his career. Base on these facts and not some “intangible” that his agent is trying to sell us, $6mil for 8 years is the most I would offer for him (to retire a Canuck.) It is more than a generous offer when he eventually is relegated to playing 3C or 4C for us while in his 30s.
Fact is that this deal will be pretty close to being unmovable the moment it is signed (unless it is part of a sign and trade.) An aging BoHo is not worth $6mil AAV at the tail-end of this contract, much less anything over $7mil (or the $8mil that is being reported). Maybe a case can be made if we are going all in over the next three or four years with a team that has a true chance of hoisting the Cup, like COL did last year or TBL the years prior. But the reality is that we are not even a bubble playoff team until bad contracts like OEL and Myers drop off our payroll.
At some point, this is a business for both the team and for the player. NHL history is littered with overpaid. underperforming players holding their teams back from becoming a legit Cup contender. Just because some desperate GM will give his agent what they demand does not mean that we should (if we want to build a long-term winner.)
Hockey Bunker:
(Winner of the author’s weekly award for eloquence/is this a haiku?)
He wants more than he is worth.
I like Bo, but he is a $6 million player.
So 6-by-6 would be my final offer.
And when he says ‘no,’ off he goes.
defenceman factory:
Once again, I see a lot of considerations for what Bo should be paid based on a 2022 cap-frozen influence. This is not how the value of a long-term contract is going to be set. The cap is projected to be at least $10 mil higher in eight years. Players signing long-term deals know this and are not leaving their fair share of it on the table.
The massive (and commonly predicted) problem for the Canucks is they have no cap room to get past the escrow repayment years to when the cap starts increasing. This seriously limits their ability to sign long-term deals.
We can rationalize all we want what Bo is worth in 2022 dollars. He is going to get seven or eight years for a minimum of $7 mil, likely closer to $8 mil. You don&#8217;t have to like it, but that is the market rate for good top-six centres who win faceoffs, kill penalties, and score over 30 goals.
Sandpaper:
I wouldn&#8217;t be offering anyone a new contract, I would be moving every one of this rotten core out and start from scratch.
One by one, they should be moved, or 2&#215;2, who cares. As a fan since the inaugural season, never have I disliked a group of players like I dislike this batch.
Other than Schenn and Bear, of course.
appaulled:
I would not be surprised if Bo is fed up with the drama that Canucks management has created. After seeing Miller getting a long-term deal at above-value and Boeser get way more that he has earned, to be offered pennies on the dollar would scream ‘we do not value you’ to me. It sounds like Rutherford offered less than value and now has put it out there that Horvat turned down the best offer. I do not care what the offer will be. If I was Bo, I would say ‘no’ and I am going to free agency, trade or not. This management deserves no loyalty at all.
Reg Dunlop:
If it wasn&#8217;t for that goal-scoring run he has been on so far this year, we would be saying $6 to $6.5 million for dollars, but I would be very concerned about a term with more than six years. Have we not learned from prior mistakes? Let&#8217;s remember that Bo started out this year as the 3C, and if it wasn&#8217;t for JTM suddenly eliminating the defensive play from his game, Bo would still be 3C. Time to move on and collect the assets that we are being told he will recoup in a trade. Need I remind you that Bo has a grand total of nine assists in 28 games so far while playing, for the most part, with decent linemates.
kanucked:
The maximum I would offer Horvat would be $7mm X eight years, with the caveat that Miller was traded. The last three years would include limited bonus payments, allowing it to be bought out after five years.
South Pole Elf:
Anything to keep Bo.
Canucks should only tank if they are not close to the playoffs by Trade Deadline.

Welcome back to WDYTT, the only hockey column on the internet being written under -38 Celsius conditions.

Speaking of things we’ve all had enough of, how about people putting words in the mouths of the Vancouver Canucks fanbase?

Every night, it seems, we’re being told what Canucks fans think and feel by players, pundits, and managerial types. And, as the official Voice of the People™ in this market, we’re starting to take some serious umbrage with that.

The worst of it comes when folks try to apply grand, sweeping opinions to this enormous and diverse collection of supporters. If you’ve been around long enough, you know exactly what we’re driving at here: this notion that the Vancouver market “wouldn’t support a real rebuild.”

We’ve all heard it said before. Even worse, we’ve all heard that reasoning applied to some seriously questionable personnel decisions. But is it even close to true?

What better place to find out than right here, right now?

This week, we’re asking you:
<h1>Would you, as a fan of the Vancouver Canucks, support a proper rebuild?</h1>
Let it be known in the comment section.

<a href="https://canucksarmy.com/news/wwydw-thoughts-canucks-tanking-final-contract-offers-bo-horvat">Last week, we asked:</a>
<h1>What would be your final/maximum contract offer for Bo Horvat?</h1>
You answered below!

FV Fan:

I actually don't think there is an offer Bo will take. My guess is he has told the team he is playing out the contract so he can control where he goes.

Enough losing is my guess.

Why would any player want this in a Canadian market.? If they were winning, or have an actual plan, that may be different.

Bo is a stand-up guy and has bled Canuck Blue for the most part his whole career.

Time to move on and go somewhere with less optics, a team with an actual plan, an ownership focused more on the Cup and less on money. None of that is available in Vancouver right now. Hope that can one day change.

Kootenaydude:

Extending Miller was a mistake. Extending Boeser was a mistake. Extending Horvat would be a mistake. We all know how bad these long-term contracts end up being. Yet, when people like the player, they suddenly forget how bad a long-term contract will be for the team. I would like to see a reset and move all of Miller, Boeser, and Horvat.

BeerCan Boyd:

Doesn't matter what our final offer is, does it? The Canucks have made theirs, and he and his agent said ‘no.’ He might find some team that will pay him $8 mill per, but he might not. Kadri didn't, and IMO, he's a much more complete player, albeit four years older. There are so many contradictions in Bo's game. A great faceoff man who is no more than average defensively. A goal-scoring centre who can't pass the puck. 215 lbs, but plays much softer than his weight. A team captain, who seems void of emotion at times.

Bo's time in Vancouver is done, let's just hope our management group is able to get something that will help in the future for him. Not a guarantee, given that he is undoubtably going to test the market in the offseason, and that for some inexplicable reason, the Canucks are not giving his agent the opportunity to talk with potential trade partners.

Rusty Bee:

Unbelievable that we are having this conversation about a career 0.65 PPG player that is no longer able to consistently drive a line 5on5 against top-six competition while still in his prime years as a 28 year old. Not to mention, a player who has so far scored 30 goals ONCE (twice if he maintains his current rate of production for this season). Looking at the stats, his player career high assist total is 34 and he has had over 30 assists THREE times in his career. Base on these facts and not some “intangible” that his agent is trying to sell us, $6mil for 8 years is the most I would offer for him (to retire a Canuck.) It is more than a generous offer when he eventually is relegated to playing 3C or 4C for us while in his 30s.

Fact is that this deal will be pretty close to being unmovable the moment it is signed (unless it is part of a sign and trade.) An aging BoHo is not worth $6mil AAV at the tail-end of this contract, much less anything over $7mil (or the $8mil that is being reported). Maybe a case can be made if we are going all in over the next three or four years with a team that has a true chance of hoisting the Cup, like COL did last year or TBL the years prior. But the reality is that we are not even a bubble playoff team until bad contracts like OEL and Myers drop off our payroll.

At some point, this is a business for both the team and for the player. NHL history is littered with overpaid. underperforming players holding their teams back from becoming a legit Cup contender. Just because some desperate GM will give his agent what they demand does not mean that we should (if we want to build a long-term winner.)

Hockey Bunker:

(Winner of the author’s weekly award for eloquence/is this a haiku?)

He wants more than he is worth.

I like Bo, but he is a $6 million player.

So 6-by-6 would be my final offer.

And when he says ‘no,’ off he goes.

defenceman factory:

Once again, I see a lot of considerations for what Bo should be paid based on a 2022 cap-frozen influence. This is not how the value of a long-term contract is going to be set. The cap is projected to be at least $10 mil higher in eight years. Players signing long-term deals know this and are not leaving their fair share of it on the table.

The massive (and commonly predicted) problem for the Canucks is they have no cap room to get past the escrow repayment years to when the cap starts increasing. This seriously limits their ability to sign long-term deals.

We can rationalize all we want what Bo is worth in 2022 dollars. He is going to get seven or eight years for a minimum of $7 mil, likely closer to $8 mil. You don't have to like it, but that is the market rate for good top-six centres who win faceoffs, kill penalties, and score over 30 goals.

Sandpaper:

I wouldn't be offering anyone a new contract, I would be moving every one of this rotten core out and start from scratch.

One by one, they should be moved, or 2x2, who cares. As a fan since the inaugural season, never have I disliked a group of players like I dislike this batch.

Other than Schenn and Bear, of course.

appaulled:

I would not be surprised if Bo is fed up with the drama that Canucks management has created. After seeing Miller getting a long-term deal at above-value and Boeser get way more that he has earned, to be offered pennies on the dollar would scream ‘we do not value you’ to me. It sounds like Rutherford offered less than value and now has put it out there that Horvat turned down the best offer. I do not care what the offer will be. If I was Bo, I would say ‘no’ and I am going to free agency, trade or not. This management deserves no loyalty at all.

Reg Dunlop:

If it wasn't for that goal-scoring run he has been on so far this year, we would be saying $6 to $6.5 million for dollars, but I would be very concerned about a term with more than six years. Have we not learned from prior mistakes? Let's remember that Bo started out this year as the 3C, and if it wasn't for JTM suddenly eliminating the defensive play from his game, Bo would still be 3C. Time to move on and collect the assets that we are being told he will recoup in a trade. Need I remind you that Bo has a grand total of nine assists in 28 games so far while playing, for the most part, with decent linemates.

kanucked:

The maximum I would offer Horvat would be $7mm X eight years, with the caveat that Miller was traded. The last three years would include limited bonus payments, allowing it to be bought out after five years.

South Pole Elf:

Anything to keep Bo.

Canucks should only tank if they are not close to the playoffs by Trade Deadline.

WDYTT: Final offers for Horvat and would fans support a rebuild in Vancouver?

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