Should the Canucks trade Edler and what kind of return would they get
— king (@onekingjake) July 8, 2018
The Canucks should trade Alexander Edler, but it’s not that easy. The 32-year-old defenceman has a full no-trade clause, and by all accounts, no desire whatsoever for a change of scenery. As for the return, I could see Edler bringing in a second-round pick or a B-grade prospect. I wouldn’t hold your breath on this one, though.
Do you see Benning actually making any trades before the season? If so who?
— RandyRanderson (@DangerZoneRandy) July 8, 2018
You would think that the Canucks have to make a trade before the season starts. There are far too many bodies for too few roster spots. The math just doesn’t add up. With a little maneuvering, the best roster I could put together in an article for The Athletic Vancouver had Adam Gaudette in Utica and Brendan Leipsic out of the lineup entirely on most nights. That’s less than ideal.
There’s no room for Quinn Hughes or Olli Juolevi on the Canucks’ roster, as currently constructed either.
This team is going to need a full complement of bodies to get through the season, but even this feels a bit like overkill. There needs to be a path for some of their brightest and youngest to make it to the NHL. Right now, there are so many depth players making big dollars on one-way deals, that the opportunity doesn’t exist.
You know they’d love to move on from defenceman Ben Hutton, but can they find a suitor? If they could, one would imagine he’d have a new home by now. It’s hard to see any of their depth forwards drawing interest. They’re in a bind.
As of right now what who are your top 5 teams in terms of nhl center ice depth?
— El Gallo (@taizzzz5) July 8, 2018
- Pittsburgh Penguins
- Toronto Maple Leafs
- Washington Capitals
- Edmonton Oilers
- Boston Bruins
Would Quinn Hughes be our best 2C if he played there this year? What would that say about our potential 2C’s?
— bgr (@Begonia47) July 8, 2018
Quinn Hughes play defence.
On the assumption that you mean Jack Hughes, I’d have to think that he’d be the Canucks’ second or third best centre already. That’s not what I’d call a good sign for the Canucks and their centre depth.
Will Michael Carcone get his first call up in 18/19
— Nucks Fan (@NucksJays) July 8, 2018
I’d love to see Michael Carcone get a shot. He seems like someone that could be a fourth-line player at the NHL level. I’m not sure I see it happening this season though. There just isn’t enough room.
With the draft and free agency being complete, where do you see the Canucks finishing in the 2018-2019 season? How sad should we be when we lose the lottery and miss out on Jack Hughes?
— Leo Kang (@omgTACOSFTW) July 8, 2018
It’s difficult to understate how awful a team the Canucks have assembled. Things are not looking good for next season. I genuinely believe that the Canucks are going to be fighting for 31st place.
As for whether to be sad or not assuming a Draft Lottery loss, I’ll just provide the usual disclaimer: it’s more likely for the 31st place team to pick fourth overall than first, so I’d try not to be too upset. That’s just the way it goes.
Who stood out to you at Dev. Camp?
— Anson Kwan (@_ansonk) July 8, 2018
I wasn’t in attendance at Development Camp, but Ryan Biech and Cory Hergott were, and the content they produced from the event is top notch.
Do u know if Jarid Lukosevicius wants to turn pro or return to college? If so should canucks invite him to Young Stars?
— Nucks Fan (@NucksJays) July 8, 2018
I have no clue, for either of those two questions. Apologies.
Is there a reason why Roussel and/or Bagle went with $3M over 4 years instead of $4M over 3 years? Would there be some general reason to not do that?
— Michael Paweska (@mrpaweska) July 8, 2018
It’s the security of the extra season that most likely appealed to Jay Beagle and Antoine Roussel. I know the money is the same, but they’re getting up there in age so that matters; especially if they want to play for an extended period of time.
From the Canucks’ perspective, three-year deals would be preferable, though, still a bit rich for my tastes.
Will Jim Benning and Trevor Linden survive passed the 2018-19 season? And by survive I mean keep thier jobs.
— Mike Schalin (@MIkeSchalin) July 8, 2018
I think so, yes.
Are score effects taken into consideration when looking at individual players’ data? If not, don’t they make a pretty big difference (sitting on a lead vs. chasing, etc.)?
— Jyrki✌️☝️ (@Jyrki21) July 8, 2018
I usually try to use score-adjusted data when conducting my analysis, at the player and team level alike. They can make a big difference, especially for polarized teams that are either exceptionally good or horrifically bad.
For those less statistically inclined, score-adjustments try to, well, adjust players’ on-ice metrics based on the score state in which they take place. The general idea is that a team tends to see an increase in their shots for rates when they’re down a goal or two; conversely, the team that is up a goal tends to see their share of shots go down.
What are your thoughts on Horvat's play this past season and where he fits in moving forward?
— Tej Sraw (@TvSraw) July 8, 2018
I think that Bo Horvat is a first-line centre, and that’s likely where he’ll slot in for the foreseeable future. I wrote as much on the topic here, right around the end of the season.
If/when the NHL expands for Seattle as rumoured, would any of our kids need to be protected? Specifically, if we signed Hughes to play this year, would he need to be protected?
— Scott (@Scott995) July 8, 2018
The Canucks won’t need to protect anyone from anyone Hughes’ draft class, or even Pettersson’s, in a Seattle expansion draft.
I know you don’t advocate firing people but who in the Canucks front office would most benefit the team if they decided to pursue other opportunities? (Sorta how Lamoriello left Toronto paving the way for Dubas)
— UberTrout (@UberTrout77) July 8, 2018
I’d like to think that Utica Comets general manager Ryan Johnson could benefit from an increased workload. He’s always struck me as a bright, relatively young hockey mind with something to offer. His work with the Comets last season was nothing short of brilliant.
I don’t feel comfortable suggesting who has to step down for Johnson to rise up, in case you’re wondering why I didn’t address that part of the question.
Of all the Canucks 2018 picks (other than Hughes) which of them do you see making the team first?
— Joshua 🇧🇪 (@JoshDoesStuff91) July 8, 2018
Jett Woo.
What would be a betting man’s prediction on the canucks defence to start the season? In your view, do we have space to give Juolevi enough minutes to justify him starting in the NHL?
— Scott (@Scott995) July 8, 2018
Alexander Edler – Chris Tanev
Michael Del Zotto – Erik Gudbranson
Derrick Pouliot – Troy Stecher
Ben Hutton
Barring at least one trade involving a member of the Canucks’ blue line, it’s hard to see a path for Juolevi to make the opening night roster.
Who is the best playmaker in the organization today?
Who will the team depend on to gain the zone on the PP if Hughes isn’t around?
— Darryl Keeping (@dkeeping) July 8, 2018
Nikolay Goldobin?
Aside from term and AAV: which ufa signing of the Canucks do you like best as a player and why? Beagle, Schaller or Roussel?
— Daniel Schwarz (@dan_qotsa) July 8, 2018
Antoine Roussel, by a fair margin.
What do you think stetcher will get in arbitration? Do you think any teams would have interest in a sign and trade?
— brent gomez (@b52gomez) July 8, 2018
I could see Troy Stecher getting about $2.5-million in arbitration. I’m sure there are teams out there that would be interested in trading for Stecher; I’m less sure the Canucks would have any interest in parting with Stecher.
What do you think the chances of some rookies making the team out of training camp with the recent signings
— B CHAP (@PlayazCanada) July 8, 2018
There’s room for Elias Pettersson, and that’s about it. The Canucks say they’ll do what’s necessary to accommodate any training camp standouts if they make a case for the opening night roster, but I imagine that’s mostly bluster.
Do you think Hughes should play in VAN this year or go to college ? Can turning pro so quickly be bad for his development?
— Steve (@SteveB41) July 8, 2018
The Canucks need Hughes more than Hughes needs the Canucks. This team can’t bring back the same eight defencemen from last season. That would be a PR nightmare. They need Hughes to inject some offence into that group, and some hope into the fan base.
Turning pro could prove detrimental to a player’s development if he’s not ready. Hughes is ready.
Free Agency is almost always a trap, but sometimes good deals slip through the cracks. What have been the best value signings this Free Agency?
— Aidan Moher rehoM nadiA Aidan Moher rehoM nadiA (@adribbleofink) July 8, 2018
Anthony Duclair to the Columbus Blue Jackets on a one-way, one-year deal for $650,000 is the early winner for value bet of the off-season.
Ok. There's no defending the money or term given to Beagle/Roussel. BUT is it the worst thing if Utica next year featured Dahlen-Petersson-Palmu, Lind-Gaudette-Gadjovich and Quinn-Juolevi all developing chemistry together and being presumably a competive team?
— Gabriel Riviere-Reid (@G_R_R) July 8, 2018
It might not be the worst thing if those players ply their craft in Utica, no. But what about next year? Or the year after? Because those contracts run for four seasons, so they’re not going to stop being obstacles to the lineup for young players anytime soon.
“The Canucks need Hughes more than Hughes needs the Canucks.”
I’m sure Hughes could use the Canucks’ $900k, compared to the $0 he’ll get in college.
yep. I think a lot of the people who are the “send them all to the minors” types fail to realize that maybe the players have some ideas of what they would like and that might be starting to collect and NHL pay check as soon as they can.
If I was a player that was good enough to make the team and they sent me down that would sour me on the organization real quick.
Well, earning $90k in Utica is still a big step up from eating Mr. Noodles out of the pot because that’s all you can afford in college.
For sure. But when your average career window is 5.5 years….90K minus taxes and agent fees ain’t going to get you very far.
Div 1 NCAA stars live pretty good. It’s not Mr. Noodles and they are Campus celebrities which is huge in the US with how they live and bleed their College.
http://www.sportingnews.com/g00/ca/ncaa-football/news/4465460-student-athletes-poverty-paid-scholarships-ncpa-texas-duke?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNhLw%3D%3D&i10c.ua=1&i10c.dv=14
That’s not really the case. As someone who played college sports in the US, I ate my fair share of Mr. Noodles and was hardly a celebrity. Puck bunnies are definitely more of a Canadian phenomenon.
Quinn’s father, Jim, has had pro hockey coaching jobs off and on 25 years. If you think he’s in danger of being financially destitute you’re mistaken.
You’d turn down $900k and the ability to be financially independent at 19 because your Dad makes a good living? And “at risk of being destitute” and “not having much money” aren’t the same thing – I have no doubt Hughes is not living in the kind of squalor that some NCAA athletes deal with, but I’m sure he’d be thrilled to be making even $90k/year.
It’s not about that. He’s a young guy about to go on his own. I’m sure he’s not really interested in having daddy support him through some “development” time. Hughes has said several times he wants to give it a shot. Listen to him. Give him his shot.
I really doubt your first round draft choice is going to sign a two way contract. He’ll earn $900,000 whether he’s in Utica or Vancouver.
All elc are 2 way bud….
Goon these kids with full rides have meal cards to eat free on campus. They have nutrition rooms stocked with supplements and vitamins with protein shakes available after each work out. They are studs on Campus, no starving students in Div 1 hockey 🙂
Mr Noodles are you serious Dude ?
where is the love for Ichiban man Mr Noodles sucks
If that’s all Edler is worth then he should be resigned for another couple years. He provides far more value than a 2nd round pick or B prospect ever will. Much like Tanev, if the deals aren’t there, then they should keep them both. They are both excellent players. Unlike many here I won’t look back at not trading guys like Tanev or Edler as some kind of “missed opportunity”. There is value in what they represent in the here and now and for a few more years, that can far exceed the expected value in a trade that let’s them go for scraps or long shot odds.
The problem with Edler is that Hughes and Juolevi should pass him in the line-up really soon. Between the minors and even on the Canucks, they have lots of third pairing left d men. A second round pick could lead to another Woo, Lind or Gadjovich.
Juolevi had an OK season as a rookie in SM-Liiga. He didn’t tear it up or bust out. Palmu had a better (Rookie of the year) season and I think no one is concerned he starts in Utica. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him there for 1 – 2 years before making the jump. If he made it to the NHL at 21, that would put him on the same path as Virtanen and Goldobin.
I would hardly call Juolevi’s season in SM-Liiga as “ok.” Not what Salo called it.
yeah I know….Salo was way more positive than just “OK”
Salo on Juolevi, “He had a really good year, he improved in the areas he needed, like in the defensive zone. He had a great playoff, he carried the team after we lost a key defenseman. He took the team on his shoulders, we were really happy with his development.”
Sounds like he had a pretty solid season.
There’s a lot of dead wood at LD that Hughes & Juolevi will pass (have passed) before they get close to passing Edler. Given Edler’s reluctance to waive his NMC, I think he’s an asset we can live with, even if that means re-signing him to a reduced role as the kids improve. Poor as the team is, they were a better team with Edler than without last year. I doubt that trend changes markedly for the next little while.
Absolutely, if Edler was to be passed by Hughes and Juolevi and became a 3rd pair d man then I would say our D was in excellent shape
This is called a succession plan, and I’m all for it. Then when Juolevi and Hughes are established in the top 2 D-pairs, and Edler is ready to hang them up, we should have other 3rd pair D men ready to take his place.
So I expect Edler to remain for 2-3 seasons past his current contract. I wonder how they massage the extensions w/ the expansion draft.
I thought I saw a whole new Edler last year, steady, consistent, responsible, and I swear I saw a glimpse of him role modeling when interacting with the young guys. Edler is not the guy we need to clear out, and probably a moot point anyway.
Three guys who have done zero in the NHL. I hope Woo, Lind and Gadjovich become great players but the odds say none of them will.
This is another example of over valuing prospects. You’re excited for them, I get it….but if any of them become even half as good as Edler already is, and will be for at least the next 3 years…that would be a major major over achievement of being a second round pick.
Edler is more valuable than that chance.
For all the kvetching about older players being obstacles to the development of younger players, I don’t recall that ever being a serious problem in the Canucks organization. Attrition is usually so severe that there are opportunities for everyone who is NHL caliber, and some who are not.
True, but would you rather have DJ MDZ/Guddy or see Juolevi/Hughes playing? I’m sort of tired of last season’s movie; I can’t imagine having ANY interest with the same cast of characters. There’s no hope of better days; at least errors committed by a young player have the hope of being corrected. I enjoyed watching Virtanen improve last season. Goldy, too. Others? Not so much. Keep the older guys for your attrition, but THAT won’t happen 🙁
I agree that a few left-shooting defensemen should be moved. Having eight under contract and others who are still unsigned is clearly in excess of needs. But the threat of older players blocking more talented prospects rarely seems to pan out in practice.
For the last four years, the team used 10 Dmen. Each year. I’d keep as many as you can.
About seven defensemen under contract on each side is about right. If they sign Hughes then it will be nine and five; i.e., too many left shots, not enough right. Granted many defensemen can play either side, but it’s not optimal.
Shooting side optimization aside, they need bodies in Van and Utica. If 14 dmen under contract is about right, then they’ll have that if and when they sign Hughes. There’s not gunna be any need to trade (unless they really want to – I would) and no one would be blocked from Van…except maybe Biega.
If both Hughes and Juolevi look good in training camp then a bunch of defensemen will have to go through waivers, and some (e.g., Hutton) might get claimed. I would rather Benning trade one or two this summer.
I’m forever lecturing on how much depth is needed to get through the season, but left defense has exceeded any reasonable needs.
I just don’t think anything is pointing to Juolevi being ready for anything other than a mid season call up. I think the only one guaranteed a spot (if he signs) is Hughes. If so, pull the trigger on a Tanev trade or waive Biega. Hughes and Brisebois can both play the right side, so I feel the team should have enough spots at least, even if they are unbalanced in terms of lefties.
The Canucks are short on right-shooting D, and you want to trade one? Trade what you have in excess — a left-shooting defenseman. Pouliot does not have the defensive skills they are looking for. He would be high on my list of trading possibilities.
“Trade what you have in excess — a left-shooting defenseman.” I agree with the rationale, I just don’t know who they would be able to deal and at what return. I honestly think they wouldn’t trade out a D man in Van without a replacement lined up either in from within or as part of a return. I think trading Tanev is their only possible move at this point – not sure if anyone else (icl Pouliot) will fetch anything back.
Tryamkin says Zdravstvuyte.
I think Schaller is the guy with some upside. Four years at Providence. Captain of his team. Two years with the Bruins let him figure out how to be successful. 27 years old gives him maybe a five year career. He might be a solid third line center that quietly becomes the goto guy.
Beagle will be Beagle – no surprises. Solid guy. Maybe 30 points. What he does do is let Benning trade Sutter – maybe before the season starts. The offers are on the table. Benning just needed Beagle in place to move Sutter.
Roussel is the big gamble. He could become semi-retired with a nice pay cheque – like the way Eriksson is semi-retired. Looks busy and accomplishes nothing game in and game out. Why didn`t Dallas re-sign him?
As I’ve said before, I’m not interested in this “semi-retired” product. Great line, by the way. I’d rather see hope of better days. Eriksson is classic for me; sure, he’s got a solid pro game, but I’m left wanting. Excitement? Right… Some of the young guys, do though. Leipsic, Goldy, Virtanen, et al. AND I want more: Pettersson, Hughes, Gaudette, Dahlin, NOW. Not perhaps next season or the one after. This has been a gong show for four of the last five seasons. We have enough veterans to support on D; keep Edler and Tanev (solid) waive MDZ and Hutton. Insert Hughes and Juolevi. Depth? Sign some of the many UNsigned UFAs. Why let Wiercoch go? And you’ve got Biega, too, in a pinch. So tired of this… Rebuild should have started so long ago… Damn dead cat bounce of Willy’s first year 🙁
Beagle has scored 30 points once in his career, and for the rest of it has been a ~15 point guy. Expecting him to meet or exceed his career maximum at 33 on a terrible team is unrealistic.
I doubt that Sutter will be traded. The plan seems to be that Beagle takes over the shut-down line, and Sutter gets more offensive opportunities.
Yup. Because he’s shown potential for that role 🙁
He’s a sound middle-six centre. The Canucks are not overrun with proven, talented centres, so it’s nothing to be sneezed at.
Barring major injuries, IMHO if Gaudette proves to the brass he’s ready for full-time duty, I think they’ll trade Sutter. Next year, TDL.
Beagle winning draws on the PK, Sutter winning draws on the PP, that should translate into another 15-20 points in the standings!
I agree that translates into something, but 15 or 20 points is way too optimistic.
Top 5 Center Depth:
Pittsburgh
Toronto
St. Louis
Washington
Edmonton
something people forget is taxes. us are generally a lot lower than Canada, there are states with 0 state tax. rousell and beagle are getting the extra year to simply even out the money. come to Canada and get taxed to death. a lot of players refuse to play here. Tavares will be lucky to pocket 5m…
It’s a mix across the states and Canada as well although we just saw an increase both federally and provincially. California and New York both have comparable or higher taxes as Canada. Sure is an advantage for Dallas and the Florida teams.
This is not actually the case. There are some states with lower taxes, yes, but others with higher. Tavares would have been paying *more* income tax in California than he is in Ontario. With the exception of the couple of states with little or no state level income tax (Florida, Texas, and Arizona) and Quebec with obscene income tax, tax levels are close enough in Canada and most of the States to be a wash.
Using the Tavares Calculator on TSN.
For a 7 year x11 M contract, take home after taxes.
Dallas/Tampa (Texas or Florida) no state tax. Tavares would have taken home 11.2 M more in 7 yrs over playing in Ontario.
Sure, in those two states there are some savings but it virtually doesn’t play a role in swinging athletes to go play their. A) other markets will simply compensate if it were an issue, B) many players simply don’t want to live in Texas or Florida, and C) it would depend on the team and what they are achieving. Anyone who wants to play for the Lightning is probably doing it cause they’re good and have a shot at the cup. Not many NHLers are lining up to join the panthers, in spite of all that extra money they could pocket.
The “low US tax” myth was busted a LOOONG time ago. A simple google search for “US sports tax myth” will bring up countless articles explaining what others here just did.
It’s virtually a non factor in why players in any of the major sports decide to sign where they sign.
For taxation. In Canada it is based on residency, in the US it is based on citizenship. This should not be a problem. There is a tax treaty between Canada and the US so he will only be taxed once.
I’m sort of at my breaking point reading the constant stream of hypocritical whining from all the CA/PITB writers about how awful a job the Canucks management is doing. ‘Start the rebuild already’, ‘there is no room for the kids’, ‘no long-term vision’, ‘why are you signing 4th liners’ . . . the thing of it is, this is a rebuild, the kids need to get physically stronger, they need mentors, support players to keep teams honest and yes ‘protect’ them, they need to earn their spot in the NHL lineup and not be entitled to one, most will. Never in the history of the Canucks has the prospect pool been so exciting, but a rebuild takes time, in part you need to be bad, and they are, and will be for a year or 2 more, then the window opens to reap the benefits of this complete overhaul when these ‘kids’ enter their prime.
When JB says something overly honest, you grind him for showing his cards, but when he offers platitudes such as competition, winning atmosphere, proper development you skewer him for not doing everything to get immediate results and you think ‘letting the kids play’ is the obvious path to get there, really? because it would be exciting to watch them get pummeled night in, night out? How conveniently you forget the Virtanen, McCann year when you clamored for them to play. Perhaps JB is fine with stocking the cupboard for one more year and maybe get lucky with another top pick while this crop of insanely good talent matures so that when they hit their prime there is enough skill to make a run at a championship rather than be amongst the herd of mediocre teams that are a player or two short, year in, year out.
Gillis took a run at the cup and came a win away at the cost of all our young talent, not only because he traded picks away. He might as well have traded them all, because his scouting staff came up with virtually nothing with what they kept. What JB is doing is assembling a renewable stream of talent that will sustain the franchise long term from the clearcut that Gillis made. It takes time, but I can see good years ahead. Patience and support, it will be a fun ride when the train leaves the station.
I love that the people clamouring for a long-term rebuild for the last 4 years instead of ‘competitive now’ moves are now being asked to be patient.
Have you heard of Jay Feaster? Craig McTavish? Dave Nonis? They’re cautionary tales.
“Renewable stream of talent” – right…by not acquiring draft picks but signing Jay Freakin Beagle for 4 years!
I share your frustration, 4 years ago I would have welcomed a house cleaning to start restocking with draft picks, even risk blasphemy by trading the Sedins, if they were willing. It was evident then that there was no way to re-tool to take another run, but it’s hard to pass too much judgement on JB without knowing what directives came from where.
So, I’m not clamouring for a long term rebuild to start now, were in it, just patience to get through it. The ‘renewable stream of talent’ is the well documented list players drafted in the last 4 years, and J’F’B is part of a new leadership group that will hopefully teach them to be professionals and win. Professional fields are full of successful mentors that show new graduates how to master their profession, they just don’t have 18,000 people watch them work every night in person, countless more through the media.
The scrutiny from writers is fine, but the piling on is excruciating and simple minded. It’s so much easier to knock people down professing to be able to do their job better, when in fact it’s delusional to think that your more qualified from your keyboard. This management group has made some curious decisions, who that’s tried anything hasn’t? Mistakes are made and not everything works out as intended, but from where they were to where they are, I think they deserve more respect than they are offered from the writers at CA. There is no easier article to write than to tear someone/something down, try journalism, we might like it. That said, it would take a more expansive vision than to only look at the season in front of us.
This site’s biggest issues with Lindenning are not some way out there opinion that no other outlet shares. This is what baffles me about those who come on here everyday and take shots at the writers. There were numerous (the athletic, espn, USA today, Sportsnet, the province etc.) on how bad the Beagle signing was. What do you expect writers to do when that contract is signed? Ignore it? Pretend 33 is a good age to sign a 4th line checker? Say it’s not a big deal because they won’t be good until the contract expires? It’s an absurdly bad contract signed by a management team with some absurdly bad moves (and lack of moves) over the last 4 years. It’s going to get skewered. There isn’t a major sports team in any city in any country in the World who would escape criticism with the moves these guys have made. When they’ve done well they get their due as well.
Here’s how it works:
He makes a good draft pick (Boeser, Petterson, Hughes) he gets praise.
He makes a bad draft pick (Virtanen) he gets criticized.
He makes a good trade (Burrows for Dahlen) he gets praised.
He makes a bad trade (Gudbranson) he gets criticized.
He signs a good contract (Tanev extension) he gets praised.
He signs a bad contract (Beagle) he gets criticized.
.
Right…it’s for the most part, not the writers here who are the problem, although they have their blind spots in places.
It’s the self loathing posters who are the problem. Fair criticism is fine, (the Beagle contract) but illogical arguments are not. (OJ is a bust because Tkachuk is playing right now).
Juolevi is a #5 overall pick so expectations are very high – rightly so.
If you’re calling him a bust that’s one thing and it’s obviously way too early to say that. If, however, you’re concerned that he’s not progressing as a #5 should that’s reasonable. It’s not that he’s not in the NHL. It’s that, up to this point, he hasn’t inspired a whole lot of confidence for a #5 pick. His projections (not made by the writers or commenters on this site) seem to have gone from a potential #1, to a top pairing guy, to a second pairing guy.
Let’s say Barrett Hayton (2018 #5) stagnated next year in the OHL, and then while had some positives, also had some noted struggles in his AHL D + 2 season. At the same time let’s say Quinn Hughes, Zadina and Bouchard start tearing it up this year in NHL. I’m sure Arizona fans wouldn’t be ecstatic.
I agree with you Dirk. Except for the very last part with the “fans” comment. If Arizona fans wrote off Hayton because Hughes does well then they’d be morons too.
And I do get what your saying. OJ has been somewhat disappointing. He may end up being a bust, but to me that’s just the gamble you take with draft picks. At any number. Some of them are going to bust. And predicting which ones will bust, is almost impossible. It’s simply to difficult to know how the character of kids in the 17 to 19 year old range will develop, or change or whatever… Every GM has some busts on their record if they’ve been drafting for a while. It’s why judging picks on what other picks do or don’t do is illogical.
There’s risk involved with any draft pick sure, but that doesn’t excuse a GM if he whiffs on a top 5 pick (not saying he has) -particularly if he’s just recently whiffed on a top-6 pick. If you’re going to play the “we just never know how the players are going to turn out” game you could apply that to every personnel move a GM makes. There’s gambles involved with all players when you take them into your team. Even with established players, you don’t know how they’re going to age, adjust to their new team or role etc. Point in GM’s have to be held accountable for their moves, despite the unknowns that they are dealing with. If that wasn’t the case you would hear a whole lot of:
“We didn’t know how Eriksson would turn out”
“We didn’t know how Gudbranson would turn out”
“We didn’t know how the Beagle contract would turn out”
“We didn’t know how Barry Pederson would turn out”
Um, who will the Canucks be “fighting” with to claim 31st? What other team is this “old and stale” even after a refresh?
The ridiculous problem with JB’s contracts is that if a player performs well, this team needs him. If a player is hot trash — yes you Loui and you too Gunny — then there’s no way to get rid of him.
And even if JB drafts well, signing up the whole cast of “Plodders — The Musical!” is not making the team faster, more skilled or tougher to play against … just tougher to play for if you’re a rookie!
$20 Canucks finish 31st and Boston gets the top pick … because #We-can’t-have-nice-things
How is Boston going to get the top pick?
Am I missing something with the depth discussions? Everyone seems to be freaking out about room, while I’m convinced they have a perfect level of depth and step-laddering for the youth finally. Schaller is recovering from hand surgery and will likely start the season on IR or at least a conditioning stint. Last year, Gaunce and Cassels didn’t make it out of camp and injuries just tore through both the NHL and AHL teams all last year to the point where they felt had to trade for Dowd for Centre depth. Year before, they had to sign Drew Shore.
None of Lind, Dahlen, Palmu, Gaudette, Petterson, Jasek, Juolevi or Hughes have payed a full season in the AHL – so this obsession to start them all in the NHL right away seems a little weird. If you believe in the stats, only 3-4 are going to make it in the NHL. I think Petterson is the only sure lock to make the jump straight to the show. Hughes to if the sign him, in which case they’ll send down Biega.
Baertschi – Horvat – Boeser
Goldobin – Petterson – Gagner
Rousell -Sutter – Eriksson
Leipsic – Beagle – Virtanen
Granlund (13) Schaller (IR)
Edler – Tanev
Pouliot – Stecher
Del Zotto – Gudbranson
Hutton (7) Biega (8)
Marky/Nils
If they sign Hughes, they send Biega down.
That actually doesn’t look to bad… not missing anyone?
??? Heh, IMHO, I think it looks terrible – though I think it wold be worse without the signings.
But no, not missing anyone I don’t think. Boucher and Archi are on two way deals. Gaunce, Kero, Saunter, McEneny and Bachman are all on close-to-minimum one ways. Biega would likely go down if they sign and play Hughes. They’ll all require waivers, but I would guess they all clear.
Gaudette could slide in if we could ditch Gagner. You make good points, but the doom and gloom, have it both ways or not at all contingent won’t acknowledge this. Instead we will be reminded how quickly Toronto turned it around, conveniently ignoring that they already had a prospect pool built from 1 playoff appearance in 11 years, 05-06 to 2015-16 inclusive. That’s some speedy turnaround, alright, but don’t let facts get in the way of your arguments.
Gaudette could slide, yes. But is he ready? 5 professional games with no points…I’d give him 20 mins a night in the AHL rather than 8 mins a night on the big club.
In terms of TO’s turnaround: I think they did it better and faster – however they didn’t have $19 mil tied up in long term NTC’s. There was no way the twins and Edler were going to waive, so I think you have to keep that in mind. However what Van did with their picks vs the Leafs…very different. Van more took a step ladder approach vs. the Leafs tearing it all down.
The last 3 or 4 Hobey Baker winning, NCAA dominant players stepped straight into the NHL and performed with various levels of success, none being failures. All being more than capable.
Gaudette is almost 22 years old. It’s more than time for him to be in the NHL with a regular role on the team so he can learn the league. The AHL would be a waste for him, unless he absolutely fails miserably in camp.
Stop babying prospects.
R4ever: Can anybody on that second line play defence? I assume Pettersson can, because … well just because …
No. But I think when I look at the wingers, things could shift dramatically. A lot of things can change, the main point was: everyone who’s currently signed can fit. They won’t have to trade for a Dowd or sign a Shore mid-season.
Second line would get lit up. Too early to call Pettersson a centre and Gagner and Goldobin are poor defensively.
It’s unfortunate that this team lacks a true second line centre and a 2-3 Defenceman. If they had those it’d be a competitive lineup.
Best case is Canucks get off to a good start before injuries expose their weakness at the top end of the lineup.
I agree its a lot to ask a skinny rookie to carry the load for two players that have been little more than a prima dona and a free loader. Gagner has to go (take a 7th round pick if that’s all you can get) and Goldy better figure it out. I see him as part of a dynamic scoring duo with Boucher in the AHL. Yakapov 2.0.
How could Hughes be at the Nuks prospects camp when the Brick Tourney was on? How can you be in two places at once?
You know what? YOU should do a compare and contrast with your Oilers.
I’m starting to feel we’ll be going a long time without the playoffs with a very different approach.
@ Super Pest
Do you think Benning was at West Edmonton Mall showing Hughes around and going on rides while Linden was riding the Pirate ship?
Why would anyone go to west Edmonton mall?
That’s where Benning scouts the Brick Tourney.
LAKID, that was Yamamoto…
the taller kid on Team Brick Edm. LOL
Yup your right it’s hard to tell the lollypop guild apart.
At least Hutton and Del Zotto are entering the last year of their contracts, so it should give opportunities for the young d men. Knowing Benning, though, he will sign a couple of aging pluggers next summer to take up roster spots following another strong draft.
The team has used 10 dmen every year for the last 4 years. They currently have about that number and next year, they could walk from 3 in their top 8. If so, you’d need three more players that could at least make the top 8 on one of the worst D core in the league. Hughes – probably yes (if he’s not there already by seasons end). Juolevi and Brisebois are maybes. It would not surprise me to see another Weiricoch type signing next year for this reason. Either top-pairing depth in Utica or bottom pairing depth in Van.
Another article that isn’t worth reading to the end. The only thing interesting is when JD said he didn’t have a clue – roger that.
Comments are good as usual.
Canucks Army – the ebola of fan sites.
A bloody mess and highly contagious?
Shanahan was hired two days after Linden, the Leafs have made the playoffs the last two years and with Tavares are now a Stanley Cup contender. McPhee took a bunch of cast-offs and also-rans and the Knights made the Stanley Cup finals in their first season. The Linden-Benning regime has had more than enough time to complete the rebuild. It’s time for fans to start grading them on results, not potential.
Well, I wrote my earlier comment before seeing this, but it was no surprise. Ignore the gong show that was the Leafs, before last year it was the same script of BS about the Oilers but few will admit to pumping their tires now. The Canucks rebuild should have started earlier, earlier but please, the Leafs and Oilers stunk for a decade and we’re expected to applaud their mild success now. It’s fine, since the professionals don’t worry about all you knee-jerk, bandwagon fans anyway. 2 months away from the season starting and they are already a write-off. Let’s see your pre-season prediction for Vegas from last year. Let’s see the CA all-knowing staff’s predictions for Vegas. Yeah, so much for individual player stats, turns out it’s a team game played by people, not computer modelling, and that’s a whole different thing. Judge the results, to be sure, but let’s not pre-judge.
Such an old and tired narrative. Give the canucks 10 years of not making the playoffs with a few number one first round picks and a free agent like Tavares, then we can compare.
For the time being, I am enjoying the process, watching the prospect pool grow and fill with talented youngsters. My suggestion is enjoy the process and have some patience.
I will give JD the benefit of the doubt and assume he was responding to the “playmaker” part of the question.
The fact that Daryl Keeping asks the zone entry PP question means he was not paying attention to the very good PP they had last year. The powerplay improved dramatically when one thing happened: they did not allow the Sedins to bring the puck up the ice. They were to slow. They relied on Boeser and Horvat to bring the puck into the zone. They were usually successful. Why would it change this year?
For those of you worried we have too many left hand defencemen. There’s not a chance that Hughes plays this year. He’s weighs only a buck fifty soaking wet. Not a chance he’s ready for the nhl. Too small and too wimpy. Back to school he goes. Needs to muscle up and grow a bit.
But JD Burke says he ready, so it must be true
lol
You forgot…… finish school and refuse to sign with the Nuks.
Hughes could play this year but all the people clamouring to see our hot prospects play now are going for a quick spike of enjoyment watching them. But this is a parlour trick that leads to middle of the pack team years from now. Over ripen your top picks if you can – keep drafting top 8, I couple of years you can take rocket from the basement to a top 10 team full of promise, in this league you gotta lose if you really want to win big. We got a stud d man and goalie coming along, and enviable young forward group. Let’s add another stud at the draft. It’s a rebuild ..it’s sucks not to have a competitive team but do you understand losing is actually winning right now? Drafting high is still on the menu this year. Rushing picks to play only shortens our window once these kids hit their prime. Botchford so worried about Hughes development “he needs to get good as fast as possible!” Lol, you can’t stop his development Botch, he’s going to be a star player in this league unless he has some type of crazy injury. During the rebuild it doesn’t do the team any favours to move prospects on to the team as fast as possible.
Kootenaydude
I’ll take that bet. $20 he plays and plays well.