Nation Radio – May 12, 2012



The hot topic this week was the launch of the Nation Network’s newest project NHLNumbers blog. Derek Zona, Kent Wilson and others stopped by to talk about how the new site came to be as well as what readers can expect from it down the road. In addition, Ben Massey called in to talk the Oilers and Edmonton FC while Kent Simpson updates us on the Oil Kings playoff march.

This is Nation Radio.

Segment 1

First up is Cam Charron of Canucks Army and Backhand Shelf. Cam and Allan discuss NHLNumbers, advanced stats and the potential fate of Roberto Luongo.

Segment 2

Derek Zona of Copper ‘n Blue and NHLNumbers shares his vision for the new project as well as his recent 2012 mock draft article and a defense of Sam gagner.

Segment 3

It’s a double dose of Canucks writers, with guest number two being Canucks Army managing editor Thom Drance. Vigneault, Luongo and stats are the main topics.

Segment 4

Next, Nation Overlord Kent Wilson looks at the NHLNumbers launch in detail. He also compares Nail Yakupv to Taylor Hall.

Segment 5

Benjamin Massey of Copper ‘n Blue joins to discuss Tom Renney, the NHL draft as well as Edmonton’s football club.

Segment 6

Finally, we end with regular guest Kent Simpson, color commentator of the Edmonton Oil Kings. He and LT go over the Kings great season, Oilers prospect Martin Gernat and 20 year old players.


The whole show.

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  • Lowetide

    I don’t knows how you done it, I only knows you done it!

    Fun day all around, all the guests were outstanding this week. I wanted to get Jonathan Willis on but it didn’t work out.

    He’ll be on next week, though.

    • Lowetide

      lol. Enjoyed it as always. We’ll have to meet in his new city and have a beer when they send Gagner packing.

      My guess is it’ll be a shorter trip for you. 🙂

  • Lowetide

    When all your skilled players are smallish , you need some size with skill.

    Gagner in my mind , I would trade before Hall Eberle RNH and Yakupov?

    If the make up of the team was different than I would keep him. But it is not.

  • BaconWrapped

    Hertl, Teemu, Coci. Am sold on Hertl unless him or Teemu not ready to come to North America soon.

    Woywitka 4 yrs $8M. Is too good to play in AHL. If the farm team had such a good run maybe try out their FWs first? Be nice to get a star centre to play with Kane, if Burmistrov and Little can’t keep up.

  • Lowetide

    Machacek and Maxwell being the obvious FWs you’d want to give a few games at least to. Scheifele only 7 0 1 1 in AHL playoffs. Flood has upside. Jets played decent. But no real superstars last year so couldn’t afford (for a playoff run Thorburn good to have on roster cheaply) to play Fehr, Glass, Thorburn, at all in retrospect.
    Koekkoek looks like he has as good shortened stats as Galchenyuk to me. -7 in 20 games but doesn’t look like great goaltending. I wonder if can trade up the 2nd rounder or trade down somehow. Some say Grigorenko will slip. I don’t believe it, but if think he will hit 6th or 7th trading a few spots up for a potential Art Ross winner can’t hurt. If Hertl will slip to 15th or lower gotta go with him and trade down. Still like Anton Zlobin’s goalscoring: a 5th rounder a yr or two ago.
    I’d rather have Koekkoek and Hertl than 9th overall and 3rd rounder…
    Reallyyyy wish I could’ve watched Que Hfx series: knew it would be intense. Yzerman had to scout for Team Canada 2014 watching internet…I’d watch the European games but no broadcast.

    2010 New Year’s Eve Chi-Det, missing a key player but one of ten best games I ever watched. Why can’t I pay $5 to watch it online once again?
    2005 (lockout) WHC Canada Slovakia amazing: Brodeur’s finest. Wish could turn sound effects up and commentary down. P.McGuire is smart but too loud. Kept dissing the probably superior Slovak D: Visnovsky was 3rd in NHL scoring and he didn’t know who Lube was.
    Same tourney, Can-Rus amazing game right to the last 1/2 second. Russian’s went with Yashin line too much instead of Ovechkin Malkin F.Fedorov kid-line.
    2004 World Cup final four, Canada-Czechs, amazing game. Luongo’s coming of age. Czechs outplay Canada.
    2003 NHl playoffs, Spezza games are a treat. Turco Gigiure from that year is best goaltending duel I’ve seen.
    Best Jets game I ever saw was a 1992-1993 regular season game against LA with 7-5 final. I don’t remember them playing the Soviet teams though.

  • Lowetide know what would be nice, which hockey games had the most scoring chances. S.Fischler used to track this in the 1980s. An even better stat would be high quality scoring chances. That 1997 Pittsburgh Washington marathon OT game was a real treat.
    Yeah, greatest game of all-time I’ll say was the 2010 New Year’s Eve Chi-Det, and I don’t even think I can buy it. I don’t remember the 1987 Canada Russia games. Games 4-6 of the Summit Series were sweet, too. I think the 6th was the won the Soviets tried to steal with PPs and Canada on the ropes. Game 4 was Wpg with Soviet kid line.
    First period of 1996 World Cup round-robin Can-USA was sweetly intense. But Canada without 6 of top players and double-shifting stone-handed Lindros. With little Fleury and Verbeek and Richter in prime: were not physical enough to get by USA D. Primeau would’ve kicked the crap out of D.Hatcher in 3rd fight if the latter didn’t KO the ref.

  • Lowetide

    Game 3: Wpg. Once the Canadian got physically conditioned it was not close. Usually one team didn’t show up in most so called classics. The gold medal 2010 game, Canada dominates. 2004 World Cup Final, Finns aren’t good enough. For the 2005 WHC final, started out strong but after first goal, Czechs play defensive and Vokoun too good. 1998 Redwings are just too good against Flyers.
    I can only imagine if Russians played Bryzgalov in 2010 or if Luongo didn’t melt down against Blackhawks in recent playoff years. 2007 Ana vs Redwings interesting style contrast, Ana offense from rearguard vs redwings forecheck.

  • Lowetide

    How did Phx beat Chi? Blackhawks remind me of Canucks of late 2000s, a few holes but exciting. Go Booth!! Am told Cze-Slov and Slov-Russia were good 2010 Olympics games.
    Americans never really played an exciting style. That historic 1996 game, had little Messier, Gretz and Coffey too. Not enough scoring in 1998 and size in 1996. Not favouring Canada but usually not enough talent on other teams to match.

  • Lowetide

    …Jesus, talking about Cloutier goal again on tsn. He sucked. I had Canucks goaltending ranked 29th out 30, in 2003, ahead of Cechmanek. Still had Cup chances in 2004 if Hedberg. In Vancouver in 2002-2003, they (fans) said Cloutier should be Vezina candidate. No, he really sucked. I wonder how Malik got so bad and Chara so good; they both seemed esimiliar back then. Quick doesn’t suck; him or Thomas might have won gold (Miller very good too obviously). You don’t expect that from Quick, you do expect 2002 ‘Wings to expose sucky Cloutier.
    I think for the 2002 Olympics, Can-Cze might’ve been the best game. I wanna watch whatever game had the Sakic Yzerman Lemieux line. Iginla looks shell shocked on the top line during gold medal game. 1998 Olympics, picked crappy team. Zamuner? Was no fun watching Hasek. And when I say post-lockout Canucks and this year Chi were exciting, I mean mildly exciting. Not like 2001-2004 Canucks teams. Even guys like Cooke and Letowski could pot the odd goal on those teams. If they traded twins for a goalie, cup for sure. But no drinking game.

  • Lowetide

    I’d still like to know what happened during the bronze medal game. Slovakia was in control, finally having a goalie and their old guard just barely unretired, and then CTV switches to some street parties. I’m thinking, this isn’t even another sport. This is like those travel shows. And then the Finns just have them kicked after most of a period has elapsed.
    Canada’s D was seldom healthy. MacInnis and Bourque rarely on same team. But 2010 was too strong. If they didn’t go into a defensive shell the gold medal game wouldn’t have been close.

  • Lowetide

    Like I said earlier, MLB too rigged or just plain badly umped, to be watchable. Jays got screwed over last night for another year. It is like soccer where they all dive, or NBA phantom fouls, in that a simple challenge would fix things. For soccer, make diving a challenge and give coach a red card if wrong.
    For NBA. IDK, challenging offensive fouls or travelling would help. 1980s college games had sweet passing and penetration of defenses slowly. Maybe giving an extra FT if holding the two pt zone for 15 seconds or four passes could make it watchable. Needs subs on the fly too.
    MLB obviously challenge the base outs with an out being the penalty. The strike zone, there are cameras that trace the ball and provide a hollow circle where they think it crosses the plate. Not perfect and penalizes junk and slow pitchers. But it can be seen where the ball is grossly outside or inside the strike zone. Because hockey is such a team sport, it is a tough game to rig even with performance enhancers. Could challenge 5 min penalties that aren’t called at all, like Torres hit (I thought only 5 games suspension, but not called and can only have a few such players in league or turns into AHL quality). I wonder if three players before game could be given red helmets, representing PP1, that are off limits to head shots? Sucky to watch Phx in final four rather than Nashville, Det, or Chi.

  • Lowetide

    Alright, scouts are saying Teemu isn’t ready to play in NHL anytime soon. With early UFA, and this might change with new CBA Gretz traded Briere for Gratton instead of signing Briere through new post-lockout NHL, I like ready players. Is even worse for D. I’d guess a guy like Trouba will take years to be NHL ready because he’s a D and USHL product. So, like Hertl, and Ceci.
    If we can get an expensive UFA, Parise 5 yrs $40M, I’d like Enstrom and 2nd rounder to Caps for their #16 pick and Alzner and Perrault and whatever else they want. Don’t care about Alzner other than cheap, but Perrault looks like Wellwood/Malhotra, already.
    #16 is perfect pick to get Hertl.

  • Lowetide

    Koekkoek is a nice lottery ticket. Better to have 1st and 4th liner than 2nd and 3rd.
    With injury and -7 in 20 games, he might be only D.Quint or he might be another Enstrom. I’d trade a 1st rounder next year for someone’s late teens pick to get Koekkoek. The thing about slow rebuilding…our games are soldout for years. Toronto is most profitable franchise but never makes playoffs. No owner drive to improve. Be better to raise some ticket prices and make a few really cheapies avaiable so everyone can get one game in. I like Ceci just because you expect Murray and Dumba and Reilly to be all gone and would already be on #2 PP ahead of Hainsey. Flood seemed to have good offense instincts from what I saw.

  • Lowetide

    Argh. January 8th 2011, Det-Van is my nomination for greatest hockey game ever that I missed the best SNL host ever to watch.
    #1 and #2 in NHL standings at the time. Datsyuk not playing. Teams are flying on offense and defense. The battles just to clear the zone were all intense.
    I’ve never seen such a beautiful thing in my life. Vancouver was on a 17-1-2 roll coming into the game. Their only recent reg loss: Det.

  • Lowetide

    Yikes, shades of waking up in 2005 to a 2-1 1st period deficit against monster (then) Slovaks. Down 2-1 at 1st Int. with Kane only Canada goal. Haven’t heard of most of Slovaks but Tatar stickhandling like Datsyuk.
    Be a shame for this team to get booted early. Is a monster; will be for yrs as most high round picks of recent, Cdn. Tourney isn’t scheduled with ratings in mind, with Canada the first game. Should be the Norway game. Should try to accomodate cross ocean fans.
    A 2011 Vancouver Wings series almost happened but Franzen Datsyul and Zetterberg all dinged up in playoffs. 🙁

  • Lowetide

    Then, as now, goaltending Slovak weakness.
    Kane will get 40 goals next year. The Jets have to go for playoff run next year. Look at Crosby’s shortened career. In new NHL salaries, gotta Carp Diem lest injuries ruin your master plan. And Kane is now team’s first superstar. Jets last year a lot like NYR before Richards and Gaborik. And Kane is now 1/2 that equation. This Canada team is stronger than the team Gretz sent to Olympics and maybe stronger than 1998 team, at least the way that team used its assets. Will we use Schenn on a shootout here?

  • Lowetide

    I think it was Mess last year who went with prospect S.Bernier in net? Picking a kid on the roster is fine, but you get 3 goalies. No reason not to sub in someone if a bad goal or two. You aren’t helping Bernier’s career, are hurting someone else’s.

  • Lowetide

    @#$%. He rabbit-stepped out of way of knee. 2 or 4 min penalty.
    Detroit said would FA but looks set with yet another later round gem.
    Funny listening to Leafs say they won’t rebuild the Pitts way. They were bankrupt without Crosby. I think they meant Ottawa, and Ottawa never won Cup. How about stop trading with Boston.

  • Lowetide

    Lidstrom mentioned he would like to retire as the best D of all-time. And also that he didn’t have much motivation; I wouldn’t blame him for that.
    For the best of all-time, I got consistant Bourque ahead of him. Another ring would change that. Tough to be better than Bobby. Led league in scoring. But by clutch-and-grab 1976 Canada Cup, it is clear he isn’t that good anymore. If Lidstrom plays as long as still active Chelios, maybe best D of all-time.
    Goalies is tough to rank. Is a bit ahead of Sawchuk and 1/2 Euro non-Senator cup winner Hasek. Roy was elite for 15 years and Brodeur only 11. So I have Lidstrom a smidge ahead of Brodeur but is still active. I love Brodeur’s personalized style but the diagonal kick-out is a known weakness.
    FWs, the WHA was strong enough to beat those Soviet teams. That 1976 tourney was Canada playing against Jets and Stastnys. Old man Bobby Hull was best player on Earth then.
    Got Gretz, Bobby Hull, Howe, Lemieux, Yzerman, all ahead of Nik, who is ahead of Sakic, M.Richard, active Jagr.
    So Lidstrom as 9th best of all time. In danger of being passed by Jagr, Brodeur, Toews, Crosby. Maybe only those first 4 FWs are uncatchable?
    With salary, you can do a lot of good. Cares about nutrition; any investment to help pesticide-ridden bees would help add more fruits and healthy canola to world. Bees pollinate 10x as much crops as value of industry and healthy foods are already a multiplier. An idiot Canadian Minister, the same one who said feds shouldn’t pay for soap in a pandemic, said our diabetic, poor and dumb (easy merketing prey) aboriginals don’t have a problem eating healthy.
    A Wpg company invested $3M in biofilm technology, not helped by corporate tax cuts.