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WWYDW: #TeamTank

The Canucks can’t even lose properly, or so it goes in the wake of their third win in the last four games with last night’s 4-1 stomping of the Ducks in front of the Rogers Arena faithful.

CanucksArmy Post Game: The tank broke

It’s a fascinating thing — watching fans of the Canucks absolutely lose their shit on Twitter, if you’ll pardon my french, over a win. Everyone knows why that’s happening though. At this stage in the Canucks’ season, it’s not about winning hockey games; it’s about losing enough to get the best possible odds in the draft lottery.

Now, I get both sides of this argument. I can understand, appreciate even, the argument that a sports team should play to win, no matter the circumstances. And in spite of what their fans want, that’s always what’s going to happen.

Then again, the best way to build a sustainably contending hockey team is with high draft picks. It’s not the only way, but it’s the most reliable way to do it. Just look at some of the Stanley Cup victors of recent years if you don’t believe me. So, why even bother at this stage? These wins are pointless. The team isn’t making the playoffs now or even next year in all likelihood.

So, with that, I want to ask you this question. It’s not a “What Would You Do” per se, but a “Where Do You Stand”, and I want to know where you stand on the issue of tanking in hockey. The floor is yours!

Last week I askedThe Canucks have made so many moves to counter stretches like these, and it’s hard to see how any of them have made even a shred of a difference. So, with that, I’m asking you, the reader, what you would do to prevent this. Get creative. Trades, free agency, you name it. I just need suggestions that will make this team a little bit more fun — this is supposed to be fun, right?

argoleas:

Actually, I would say for Canucks to embrace it. Stop fighting it. They suck. Rebuild properly, or be stuck in purgatory.

Otherwise, embrace the Colorado model. Not sure it will work, but it’s the best direction. If they went after someone like Carlson, they would have to way overpay. Bad idea.

Bring in Pettersson, Gaudette, Dahlen, and Joulevi.

Sacrifice one of Sutter’s balls to entreat the Hockey Gods to win the draft lottery, then ask someone else to donate one for next year’s draft lottery.

TD:

More talent, more depth and less injuries. With the talent they have in the NHL and AHL this year, the Canucks would have to be healthy to have a chance at being a bubble team. Every time they suffered injuries to important players the results showed on the ice (Horvat, Baertschi and Tanev in December and Baertschi, Boeser and everyone else to end the season). Not many teams could remain in the playoffs losing two thirds of their top line and other legitimate top 9 players for huge chunks of the season. The lack of organizational depth in the AHL and NHL showed when they had injuries. The replacements were literally replacement level or lower. If Pettersson, Dahlen, Gaudette, Lind and Gadjovich are in the AHL next year, the Canucks will be able to call up players with more upside. Some of them will end up being like Goldobin and Boucher struggle to show they belong, but others will likely make it hard to send them back down. The depth won’t be quite that good in the AHL next year as the fans will revolt if some of those players aren’t on the team.

Super Pest:

Oh, interesting? All that’s left for that would be a couple of things: 1. Demko for a few, just because… (didn’t hurt Boeser, did it?). 2. A Mea Culpa from all in management AND coaching. Sorry Greener, you broke Hutton and the development of Goldy spotty; Boucher? Non-existent. (I’ll give you Virt, but we needed so much more, including Markstrom. They all failed. Benning did NOT supply either enough or the right depth. Trevor? Get the messaging right and the fans would eat out of your hand; you’re loved, use that leverage. “Development is our top priority; getting younger, our top priority. Winning will come; we will choose our “core” culture carriers and no free agent signings that will prevent our youth from gaining experience, both good and bad. Our youth WILL make mistakes and will be sent right back out onto the ice.” We are “building” a championship team; anything else will be a failure.

NeverWas:

I’m actually a pretty big supporter of this site and love to joke around and have been following for a pretty long time… this is the worse post I have seen.

It’s so obviously biased, anti canuck propaganda.

A) this team is a shell of the team that started the season so they aren’t “falling apart” they are missed how many of there best players all season and this was a team that needed everything to go right, just to be competitive. Cause, you know… they are rebuilding…

B) if it’s so “difficult to cover this team right now” than let’s focus on the future because we got an unprecedented level of skilled prospects and another high end draft pick coming, dahlin or no dahlin. We also have a potential elite talent probably joining the team next year.

You guys got time to write this trash but can’t finish the prospect reports on the most interesting and optimistic subject of this team right now…

Did that Freud troll draft this up?

Come on, this is not the level of writing nor analysis that this is… or what I though it was suppose suppose to be producing.

Rant over.

truthseeker:

well…first I’d conduct deep player interviews and interviews with Green to determine if there are any issues with communications between the players and the coach.

I’d resign the Sedins as cheaply as possible for one or two years.
I’d let Dowd walk.
I’d try to find takers for Guddy, Del Zotto, Gagner, and maybe Sutter at the draft.
I’d trade Sven and Granlund if there was a decent (2nd round or better type) return. If not I’d resign both of them as cheap as possible.
I’d ask Edler to waive and try to trade him at the draft. (probably won’t work)
I’d still insist on an A+ prospect plus a first round pick for Tanev. If I couldn’t get it I’d resign him now for another 3 to 4 years.
Resign Stetcher, Pouloit, Jake and Boucher. Making sure I could bury them in the minors if I had to.
I’d see if I could lock up Boeser for max term at around 6 million. Might be willing to go to 7.
Try to trade Neilsson and then bring up Demko for the backup.
Draft a D with our first round pick. Hopefully number one but even at number 2 overall. Because of Button’s article Bouchard would be my choice.
I’d go D again in the 2nd round and if I managed to get another 2nd round pick I’d make sure to get a goalie.
I’d look to sign some decent but cheap younger UFA shot suppressing D men as hold overs, maybe guys like Michal Kempny, Greg Pateryn or Mark Barberio….(really don’t know much about them just that their shot suppression numbers are pretty good…more of an example rather than specifics)
If I could get Evander Kane for 6 million per….then…..y……yeah…I’d do it.

Something like that.

Quantum:

The Canucks need to embrace going young… follow the examples set by Colorado and New Jersey. They got rid of there old players and embraced youth. Winnipeg has also done this, to a certain extent, although they’ve taken a longer more methodical approach with how they’ve developed their prospects and are now one of the best teams in the NHL.

1) Get creative. Canucks need to be willing to deal anybody not named Boeser, Virtanen, Horvat, and Stecher on this current team. Nobody should be safe from a deal. Is there an offer to offload Sutter? No heinous contract coming back? Take it, even if it’s a third and a b prospect and a guy you have to stash in the minors (like what the Leafs do from time to time). Somebody wants Markstrom? Maybe it’s time to move on from him. Or Nilsson. Whatever comes first in terms of a palpable deal. And if anybody wants any of our defensemen, they should not be safe. Despite Gudbranson just signing an extension, if I had my way, I’d still consider dealing him. At the end of the day, I’d just try and dump as many contracts as I could to whoever would be willing to take them.

2) Open up spots for youth. Canucks should be wide open at the start of next training camp with roster spots. Opening up upwards of 5-6 spots throughout the lineup. Instead of signing guys on July 1st, Canucks should be on the hunt for guys to sign to tryouts for training camp. This way youth can fight to be on the roster. From my count, upwards of 5 rookies could claw their way into this lineup. That’s insane, I know, but think about it — Gaudette, Petersson, Dahlen, Demko, and Juolevi have legitimate shots to make this club and will need roster spots. On top of this, you have guys like Jalen Chatfield, Evan McEneny, Michael Carcone, Zack MacEwen, and whoever the 1st rounder of 2018 is (if it’s one of the top 3 guys picked, you can count on them making a GIANT push for a roster spot). By committing to guys on tryouts instead of handing out deals on July 1st, the Canucks can easily sign veteran depth in the event a majority of these guys aren’t ready to play in the majors. However, as the league gets younger and faster, I have a hard time believing they’ll all sink when they show up into the NHL. Especially guys like Petersson, Gaudette, and Juolevi.

3) Let the Sedins walk. If they want to play in the NHL, let them sign elsewhere. This team needs to become Horvat and Boeser’s. The time is now to transition. We’ve had 3 seasons of collapses under the Sedins. Sure, there points will be missed, but they’re only getting older. The young guys need to be responsible and the roster spots the Sedins occupy are too valuable. If there was only 1 Sedin, it would be easier to want to re-sign them. But there’s two. And at this point, I’d only want Daniel back. Henrik clearly doesn’t have much left in the tank. Besides, I think they’d benefit the most from playing elsewhere without the burden of legacy and history and pressure on them going for one last run at a cup.

4) If Demko’s not ready and you move one of Markstrom or Nilsson, Canucks should consider waiting until waivers to pluck a goalie. A guy I think could be a savvy pickup, if he’s available, is Garret Sparks of the Toronto Maple Leafs. I’ve always liked him as a player and think he’d be a good goalie partner to Demko in the long run. He’s one of the best goalies in the AHL right now and could have been claimed on waivers this past year but wasn’t. With the Maple Leafs also having Calvin Pickard in their system, I can see Sparks getting sent down again. This would be the time for the Canucks to pounce on a guy like Sparks.

Essentially, I believe the Canucks need to get creative with how they approach the future from here on out and that’s WWYD if I could.

  • Cageyvet

    I would do exactly what the team is currently doing. Shut down any vet with an injury, and play the kids, but don’t even try to lose by giving a half-assed effort. Not only is it going to build bad habits and a loser mentality, but it seems to be a truism that less than a full effort lends itself to injuries, and I don’t want to see Bo or Jake suffer any kind of injury.

    If the old system was in play, and finishing position equalled draft position, then you could justify having Nillson in net and bring up Megna, etc., but the ugly truth is that the field has more chance at number 1 than the last place team. No matter what, we will get a top 10 pick, so it’s not a total disaster. My version of embracing team tank is you don’t fret about winning, develop good habits in your future core, and let the chips fall where they may. As long as you don’t keep the kids on the bench in search of meaningless wins, then send your team out to play hard every night, knowing that we will usually lose anyway because we’re just not good enough.

  • Cageyvet

    Also, ask yourself this question, if Brock was still healthy, would you ask him to stop filling the net just to get a few measly percentage points? Just because he is hurt, the mentality shouldn’t change for every other player on the team.

  • Reuben

    I believe in rebuilding but I also believe that throwing games is unethical, so I suppose that no, I don’t believe in a full tank. That being said, I also can’t support loading the team with overpaid “name brand” free agents on untradeable contracts. I think that, if you truly and sustainably build through the draft, with luck a team can contend indefinitely.

    Obviously that’s a totally unrealistic fantasy in 2018 Canuckland. So if it were up to me, I’d spend to the cap floor. Short term contracts on free agents. Take salary dumps and draft picks at the trade deadline. No free agent pickups until July 8th, to help resist the urge to enter a bidding war on a blown out 32 year old. Then I’d fill the ranks with guys from the existing prospect pool. I’m pretty sure that after that, the tank would take care of itself. With some good luck on the draft floor the prospect pool would slowly replenish. At the optimistic pace of two NHLers per draft you’d have the beginnings of a real team after 6-7 years. Then I’d attempt to make a couple aggressive free agent signings to fill the gaps in the top 6 and 4 and maybe I’d have something.

  • Defenceman Factory

    The purpose of the 82 games is to provide entertainment. If the incentive to lose is significant the games are not entertaining. If getting better odds from finishing last are still worth losing for the NHL doesn’t have it right yet. I absolutely hate watching teams trying to suck. Let’s make team tank extinct.

    How about the bottom 3 teams don’t get a lottery pick. They pick 4th, 5th and 6th respectively in every round. Simplify the odds for the remaining 13 teams. The 4th 5th and 6th worst teams get the same odds in the lottery. Poor teams would be trying to win in order to get a lottery pick rather than icing the worst possible line-up. That would make team tank extinct and the last 10 or 20 games in a season would be much more entertaining.

    • ManicSt

      I’ve thought about doing things like that with the draft. I do think that teams should have a good crack at getting at least one really good player though, so I’d have the team that finishes last have pretty good odds of getting the good pick, but they wouldn’t be able to draft in the top 2-3 for the next two years or something, that way teams aren’t rewarded for Edmonton/Buffalo (and let’s face it, pretty soon Vancouver) level suckery, and the teams that aren’t good enough to make the playoffs but still respectable will sometimes wind up with the first overall pick – kind of like New Jersey did last season, and they’ve been able to surround Hischier with a good young core rather than having him walk into a total tire fire, as an added bonus – and so talent would then be distributed amongst teams that aren’t flubbing player development the way that some teams seem to be and just turning into a black hole for elite talent to fall into.
      And it would make that late year hockey better, too; and let’s face it, this is entertainment and should be fun to watch more often.

      • KCasey

        How about an insane finacial burden to owners if your team continually finishes dead last or even bottom 3. As in 1 year is fine but year 2 gets a 1 million penalty attached and that penalty inceases with each consecutive year. 1m, 5m, 10m and so on. Eventually you would hit a point of not being able to afford being terrible and have to put up or ship out. Realistically there should be no reason for a team to draft top 3 or even top 5 for 5 or 6 years and not get better. If you stay bad after all that than you dont deserve to have a franchise anyways. This would put pressure on all owners to scrutinize poor decisions made by managment so as to avoid systemic losing and terrible on ice product. Its not a complete fix but it might help the current model without the NHL admitting failure and overhauling the entire system.

  • argoleas

    First, we should remember why this team is at the bottom of the league: it is rebuilding, it has aging vets while the emerging core is a few years away from truly taking over, the goaltending is suspect, and no depth to handle a really bad stretch of key injuries. All of these conspired to result in where they are. But if just Marky played better (i.e. like now), and just Horvat and Boeser were healthy all season, they would be probably 10 spots higher and we would not be having this discussion.

    As such, I cannot support telegraphing to the players that they should play lousy. Vanek was traded, and other vets and top players are injured, and spots were filled with prospects and castoffs. Can we complain that somehow this group tailor-made for tanking still found a way to win? Marky is playing better (not just late season push crap), Goldy seems to be finally grasping playing away from the puck and hounding for it. Am I going to say to Gaudette ” hello Hobey Baker favorite, now go suck for a few games?” That is nuts.

    I still do hope that they finish as low as possible, but I will not curse Canucks players for playing to win. I will in fact, cheer for the players on Buffalo, Arizona, Montreal, Ottawa, and Detroit play to win too!!! Go Eichel!!

    Most of all I hope all the teams left on Canucks’ schedule also come to play and win. Not another Duck Suck, plz!!

  • Killer Marmot

    I don’t understand “fans” who want their team to lose. What is the purpose of being a fan except to watch fun, exciting games where the players and management are giving it their all? Team Tank wants Stanley Cups, but they don’t seem to actually like hockey.

  • Dirk22

    It’s not that complicated. The fans, myself included, wishing for the highest draft pick possible want to get excited about this team again and see guys like Dahlin, Zadina, Svechinov etc. No one expects the players currently on the roster to care and rightfully they should be playing for their jobs. Problem is, Brandon Sutter having a great game, or Sam Gagner having a great game does nothing for the long term prospects of this franchise. There is no ‘winning culture’ in jeopardy of being tarnished as this is the worst team in the league since the start of the 2015-16 season. This franchise will make it or break it on the backs of their 2018 pick, Horvat, Boeser, Petterson, Juolevi – none of which will be impacted by the last few games of the season.

    The absolute only guy I can see anybody make an argument for is Markstrom – he’s the only player who might gain something meaningful from the last few games if he strings something together. That only matters if you think Markstrom is going to be part of this team’s future – maybe, maybe not.

    In conclusion, this ‘real fans don’t cheer for losses’ sentiment is horse s$&@. Team tank fans want this franchise to get back to where they were about 9-10 years ago. The majority of players donning the jersey right now have nothing to do with that.

    • Defenceman Factory

      I don’t begrudge people for cheering for losses. No question the team is better off with a higher draft position. I would rather there was a system that didn’t reward failure so richly.

      There were 7 players, not including the Sedins, in last night’s lineup that need a new contract this summer, here or somewhere else. Has to be frustrating knowing any of their individual success is to the detriment of the team they currently play for.

      • Looper

        Yep mostly, liked the effort and the play but would have preffered the L at the end. It was hard watching them when they looked like a dead team walking. Team tank fans want to watch exciting entertaining games but just want the L to go with it. And as for excitment they are playing even lower event hockey which is less entertaining to get these W’s. Would rather see them playing more agressive not going back to WD’s style that was the hardest 2 seasons I have ever has to sit through

    • Looper

      I fully agree great post. Team tank fans dont want the canucks to come in and not give an effort. They want them to try and we get excited and happy when they score because we are fans, but after the initial rush of the goal our brain kicks in and says ouch cuz we desperatly need one of those top 2 D in this draft. Also being canucks fan we expect to move down come lottery time. There is a drop from picks 2 to 6 compared to 7 to 10. They dont need to finish last but no fan wants the canucks to be picking outside of the top 6. That is my nightmare. We’ve had to sit through watching the worst team overall the last 3 years, and team tank fans don’t see it getting better without some great D coming and soon.

      • logicseeker

        Chicago tanked for Kane/Toews – 3 Cups later
        Pitts tanked for Crosby/Malkin and Mario – 5 Cups later
        LA tanked for Kopitar/Daughty – 2 Cups later

        you are the biggest no character loser here sh^t stain, but we already knew that. loser.

        • North Van Halen

          Wow, just wow. Might be the dumbest most misguided bunch of falsehoods this site has seen (considering your competition truly amazing). Both Crosby and Kopitar were drafted the year after the shutdown. The year the NHL drew from a hat EVERY draft position, So you’re saying LA & Pitt tanked the season that didn’t happen, that is impressive.
          Also, Kopitar was drafted 11th overall right after Luc Bordon (RIP).
          You really need to keep ‘seeking logic’ cuz son, you got none!

          • logicseeker

            Terrible logic. All the teams mentioned sucked for years by order of their owners so they could draft high and then win cups, that’s where tanking comes from, not the players or coaches… 10 cups later they proved to be ultimate winners. Keep googling in vain though peckerhead, it amuses me.

          • North Van Halen

            Googling child? For a message board?!?! Funny. No. I’ve actually paid attention and I’m long graduated high school so I don’t need to google nor, like you, invent facts.
            Kopitar 11th. Crosby a gift from the Gods. But hey keep on inventing those facts to fit your diatribes. You are the true definition of better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

          • logicseeker

            What part of won TEN CUPS don’t you understand ignorant dumb old f@rt? There is no argument here. You only win cups by drafting legit game changers after bottoming out, it’s not rocket science… except for Vancouver and fools like you of course…

          • North Van Halen

            Insults & lies don’t make you right child. You stated those 10 cups came from ownership encouraged tanking.
            Kopitar was an 11th pick. Pittsburgh was sold and would have moved to Hamilton without league intervention since they were so awful. Winning a 30 team lottery saved that franchise and handed them 3 cups.
            I’m too lazy to google so I can’t debunk your Chicago theory of sponsored tanking but at least 5 are straight up, invented crap.
            God why do I keep feedng the trolls?

          • Looper

            Well Pits definitley tanked to get Malkin, and since they where so bad they got better odds in the crosby lottery(3 balls instead of 2 or 1) . So pits success for the last 3 cups can be attributed to building around malkin and crosby. But his LA point is completly off base re kopitar but right about doughty. Chicago though did tank hard. Toronto tanked hard looking good now. Canucks even tanked hard and got the Sedins… got us to a gm7. Usually you do need a few top 3 picks on your team to make good stanley cup runs. Its not all you need but its very important. Also the top picks in the draft are almost garunteed to be good to Elite whereas you go further down the draft its a way bigger crap shoot. But tanking isnt for players or coaches its done by the GM. If players and coaches try to tank now that would be wrong. But as a coach you can try to develop and not play jussi jokinen 16mins a night. Or sutter 18mins, let gaudette play in the 3rd, lets try and see what theses kids can do as they will be part of a future winning team. Players who wont be here when we are succesful again: basically everyone except horvat, boesser, stecher, Gaudette, maybe Virtanen, poulliot, and Markstrum. So then play the other guys that might be able to help and see for sure. But none of the veterans aged 28 plus will likely still be here in 2 to 3 years. Except Ericksson…sigh

        • KCasey

          How about some facts about you LogicSeeker….your weak, your bloodlines weak and you will leave this world sad and alone. However it doesnt need to be this way, there is still some hope for you, sadly its only Jesus that can bring you out of your truly terrifying state of mind and he is just simply to busy clipping his toe nails to enlighten you.
          Now feel free to go full rage mode and spew some more useless anger for us. Its a true treat to watch a fool speak out loud.

        • truthseeker

          wait….I thought you thought I was that? Or do you think I’m some f…king stupid c…t loser like you with multiple accounts? Hahahahahaha….not everyone is as f…king pathetic as you you dumb motherf…ker.

  • TD

    They have shut down every player that possibly could. I’m encouraged about how hard the team is working. That should hope for future years, although hopefully not much of this team will be left. It does mean they are playing for Green. These last two wins against teams fighting for the playoffs have more to do with those teams showing up then the Canucks winning. If both teams played hard the Canucks would have lost.

    Players and coaches will never tank and teams actually tanking gave us the draft lottery and then caused it to move to the top 3 picks. The league can’t have teams tank as it would destroy the integrity of the game.

    I really don’t know what else management could do to tank. They got rid of Vanek, they shut down every player with a bruise and basically are playing with half a team and weak replacement players.

  • liqueur des fenetres

    Teams in the NHL play to win the ultimate prize, the Stanley Cup. But by the midpoint of the season 5+ teams are no longer in that contest, so all they should do is play to win the remaining prize, the draft’s first pick.

    • TD

      Players would play themselves out any future jobs if they quit trying and fans would not show up. Additionally, the league would have to put an end to tanking as it would kill any integrity and credibility. Look at the huge fine Mark Cuban got from the NBA for even mentioning tanking. Think about the bubble teams missing out on the playoffs because they played the Canucks in October and lost and their competitor for a playoff spot played them in March after they threw in the towel. I agree desire for high picks, but any overt tanking hurts the sport and will only lead to steps to end the tanking. I could see further evening of the draft lottery if tanking becomes a bigger problem in the future.

  • TheRealPB

    There is no way your head can cheer for a win and there’s no way your heart can cheer for a loss and therein lies the conundrum. It doesn’t make you any more or less of a fan to break either way and I think most of us are pretty torn. Yeah, the odds are still against you even if you finish worst but go and run the simulator and see how much better the positions you get are in 20 or 100 sims when you’re in 2nd versus 5th. I struggle so much with this; I want to see what Gaudette looks like, how Virtanen is progressing, what the possibly final games of the Sedins look like and all the rest. But I cannot deny that when the Ducks tied it up on the fluke goal I was slightly relieved and then felt deeply conflicted when Biega scored. Each time I feel like I should just turn off the game and look at the boxscore the next day. I probably should. I can at least take solace by watching an Oilers or Flames game these days and be grateful we’re not in their messes, totally crapping the bed while having the best player in the league or in having basically no draft picks in the first few rounds for the next two years. And in the case of the Oilers almost no prospects in the pipeline either…

  • KCasey

    This topic is the murkiest of grey areas in regards to being a fan of any pro sports franchise. Its tough because all fans wish whats best for the team yet there is no real definitive answer or proof that either way is the absolute best way to get out the depths of misery. Some say full on tank is best because look at Toronto or the sullen years of Pittsburg, Chicago and LA but on that same coin lays Edmonton, Phoenix and Buffalo…heck toss Carolina and Florida in the mix as cusp tankers. Others would say the competitive/teach the young kids proper formula is best with points going to Columbus whom has never really been a true lottery team but has climbed there way to relevancy or New Jeresy and Islanders who both have drafted high on several occasions but have never been the perenial tankers in the sense we have become used too.
    In my eyes the best approach is to be as good as you can be until the very end of the inevitable, in our teams case the last 10 games or so. Thats fine because you spent the first 72 driving home good habits and work ethic and than the last few weeks improve your teams statical odds of being in a better place the following year. My biggest quarell is with the ‘fans’ that demand the team tank before the first puck of the season is dropped. Being terrible and off track for that long of a period is almost irriversable. That applies to almost everything in life whether it be your marriage or your pets or even your garden. You skip out on the responsibilty that those things require for to long and the connection is forever severed. In my eyes you absolutely want to get more quality prospects but your biggest goal should be to utilize the prospects and assest you already have. I know a very select few rich people who sank there every penny into stocks hoping they turn out down the road but know a great deal of succesful people who got where they are working a 9 to 5 with what they had and improved those things incrementally over time. Instead of living in a terrible house for 5 years praying the market improves its value to better your situation….maybe start putting in some self effort and grease the squeeky hinges and paint the walls and do some common sense due diligence and let the surprise take over you in time. Both ways take time but at least one doesnt require you to twittle your thumbs and look lazy to majority.

    • liqueur des fenetres

      The irony here is that the team has been battling for high draft positions three years in a row now, with at least two dramatically different line ups.

      • TD

        They may battle for a couple more as well until more of the picks get into the 20-24 range. Besides a 19 year old Horvat, the only young player on this team from the Gillis age is Gaunce, who is a fourth line player. While he has good underlying numbers and defence, he will be fighting to make the team next year. It will take some time to get the newly drafted players into the NHL. It takes 20 players for a team. The Canucks have a long ways to go.

    • Dirk22

      ‘Field a garbage team’ – says a ‘real fan’ of the worst team in the NHL since 2015-16.

      The financial argument is the worst one out there. This is a cap team! If they’re worried about $ there’s a quick fix.

    • Looper

      Since the lockout we have had 7 different teams win the stanley cup and only 2 of those teams didnt tank . The anahiem ducks and detroit. And those guys only one 1cup. 2 good FA signings in Anahiem and great drafting Detroit. Ive paid and gone to games and support a tank… or do you think the last 3 seasons the canucks havent been tanking? Not on purpose by the GM but still happening.

  • Kootenaydude

    Earlier in the season I thought we should keep the Sedins. Not so much now. I would like to see the Sedins replaced with one quality centreman. Without Horvat. We pretty much have nothing down the centre. These two usually get offensive zone starts, but are still a minus 20. If they get resigned. It better be for only one farewell year.

    • Dirty30

      The only reason I’d like to see the Sedins signed for one more season would be if it was to Pettersson’s development benefit. He makes the big club, he plays very sheltered minutes with the Sedins and their job is to teach him what they know.

      The benefit is language, culture, and that he will learn from an Art Ross centre and an Art Ross winger how to play in this league. That’s a line that could be a lot of fun to watch.

        • Ser Jaime Lannister

          So you think theyll put up 50 again? Lets be more realistic and say 40 each, yes thats easy to replace since at least half are on the PP? (heres a hint, pass it to BB) and well replace that terrible defensive play of theirs which should help our overall team defence. Youth and speed is the name of the game my friend, we need to shelter our kids not our vets.

  • Nuck16

    The Canucks need to use the 2020 expansion draft as the stepping stone be becoming a cup contender in the season that follows. In terms of assets than are draft eligible, management needs to make a list of the players they see as being the core of this team going forward. Any of the grey area fringe guys, such as your Baertschis and Granlunds (just examples)…they should be looking to trade for assets that are not draft eligible. What we want to do is stockpile non draft eligible assets and free up protection spots so that in the lead up to the draft, we can extort teams that have a surplus of high end talent which they can’t all protect, and flip picks and prospects to these teams for high end talent at pennies on the dollar.
    And pleeeeeeeeeze, between now and then do NOT make any Gudbransen like trades where we trade 2 non-draft eligible assets for an asset that is draft eligible (who we ended up protecting causing us to lose Sbiza as a result), unless of course it’s part a pre-planned strategy above where we are getting amazing value in such a trade with the intention of filling out our list of protected players in the lead up to the draft.

  • Bobaner

    I personally feel that if you’re getting upset at your team for winning games you don’t respect the players or the league. No one team is more important than the game itself. An outside the box idea would be to take all the lottery teams and have a one and done tournament that decides draft position. I haven’t considered any of the logistics around this though.

  • Big D, little d

    Let’s look at it from the fan’s perspective. Looking at it from Management’s point of view probably requires a little different analysis.

    The thing is, the tankista’s aren’t wrong. Winning games has a tendency to move you up in the standings. Moving up in the standings reduces your chances of a high draft pick. A high draft pick is more likely to be an impact player than a lower draft pick. Having an impact player improves your chances of being a better team in the future. Therefore as a general truism, not winning games (ie losing) tends to improve your team in future seasons.

    And it doesn’t help to cherry pick counter-examples. Sure, sometimes teams higher up the standings win the draft lottery. And sometimes the number one draft pick is a bust. And there are teams around that have had many high draft picks but haven’t translated that into winning seasons. But over time the odds win out. That’s why guys who own casinos get rich, and guys who play at casinos don’t.

    The question is, what do you do with that information? If you could do the analysis and determine that losing to the Oilers tonight is worth one-half point in the standings next season, does that justify cheering for the Oilers to win tonight? (hint – no it does not. Nothing justifies cheering for the Oilers.) How about if it was two points in the standings? How about ten? (nope, still not cheering for the Oilers.)

    Bottom line – cheer for your team. Be happy when guys like Biega and Dowd score; it happens infrequently. Enjoy the wins; there’s going to be more than enough losing. Allow yourself to celebrate the successes; there’s been little enough of it. Don’t worry so much about what is going to happen next season – tomorrow has enough trouble of its own.

  • Looper

    I stand firmly with the tank. There is nothing wrong with it at all. People seem not to understand that its not the coach or the players that tank. Professional athletes play to win. You tank by bringing in youth and bubble players and ship out veterans for PICKS. The GM is the one who tanks, the biggest issue is that we have tanked 3 years in a row unintentionally. Starting to think that the front office is a complete mess and all need to go. When you look at what they have tried to do and failed so badly at it 3 years in a row Im shocked there was an extenstion and that linden isnt in trouble. They keep doing similar things every season and expecting different results.

    • Visceral Thinker

      It truly is baffling…What is this identity of this team? What is the direction of this team? How long is the window going to be? I cant get over the fact that our two biggest trade chips (Edler/Tanev) both of whom would fetcj a first rounder plus are still here and haven’t been traded. Have they not learned from Juolevi? That D prospects can take anywhere from 2-4(plus) years to develop?

      I fear there is going to be major holes in the lineup by the time Bo Horvats contract is up and management will be stuck in a tough situtation……Do we be loyal to players and re-up to big long term deals when their best years will be behind them? Tick Tock TL and JB…

  • truthseeker

    One word sums up why I don’t cheer for the team to lose even now. Probability.

    The percentage difference between the spots that are “fighting” for 31st, and I’ll be generous here, are at most 12%. Really it’s more like 8 to 10%. In my opinion an increase of 12% in chances is basically meaningless. I wouldn’t bet any money on a 12% swing when the best odds are under 20% to begin with. That’s just a bad play.

    So for the canucks I personally feel that winning a few games here at the end is more important than the slight almost meaningless increase in odds.

    To respond to Dirk’s point that there is no “winning culture” in jeopardy, because the team has sucked for a few years, I disagree. The “winning culture” isn’t about the points at the end of the year. I don’t use “winning culture” because it’s not an accurate term. It’s about work ethic, pride in what you do, and never giving up. It most certainly does matter if guys like Sutter and Gagner have good games because it’s an example to those young guys of not giving up no matter what, even when the team sucks. If those vets just float and play light, that could definitely cloud the team in an environment of “oh well…why bother” as soon as things get tough and young players will take that with them into the future. One day they will be in a playoff series (hopefully..lol) and be down by two games and down in the second period of the potential series losing game in a situation where it pretty much looks hopeless and that’s when that “why bother” attitude will creep back in. And the worst thing is it will be instinctual. They’ll just quit. Everyone has seen pro teams who pack it in in playoff games. They fold. It happens.

    It goes even farther than that though.

    It’s also about the probability of drafted players becoming a success. For sure getting a top 2 pick will get you a higher percentage chance of a top 6 forward or a top 4 D man. And there’s no doubt that would be great to have. But picking in the top five gets you around a 74% chance of getting a top 6/4 player. That’s very good. But it’s still no guarantee. It never is. “Sure thing” prospects fail.

    Combine that with the lottery odds, pick odds, and the psychology of a young man having his life completely changed at the age of 18, and you end up with a huge mess of unpredictable factors that make any “strategy” pretty much meaningless.

    They’ll finish where they finish. Either win or lose the lottery out of sheer luck. They’ll pick the “good young player” they want (and all of them in the top 10 are good) who will either adapt and become a player or they won’t and be a bust. And to top it all off we wont even know that for years after the draft. Again, there is no “strategy” that’s going to pull all that together. Especially not worrying about dropping a couple points in the standings…lol.

    Just sit back, relax, and watch what plays out. Enjoy the team when they are enjoyable. And recently they’ve been kind of enjoyable to watch.