Hunter Shinkaruk sent back to WHL

Alain Vigneault proves once again he just doesn’t want kids on his roster.

Wait… Vigneault isn’t here anymore?

This isn’t unexpected, looking at the roster moves that happened yesterday. The Canucks needed to clear out a body after adding Zac Dalpe and again after adding Ryan Stanton, and really, what’s worth burning a year on Shinkaruk’s entry-level deal when he needs to be around for cheap in the years when all those long term contracts start to pile up?

For B.C.-based Canuck fans that want to get a look at Shinkaruk, the Medicine Hat Tigers actually make two Western trips this season.

November 12 – @ Prince George
November 13 – @ Kamloops
November 15 – @ Vancouver
November 16 – @ Kelowna

January 21 – @ Victoria
January 22 – @ Vancouver
January 24 – @ Kelowna
January 25 – @ Kamloops

They’ll also play in Cranbrook on January 5, February 19 and March 7. I wouldn’t expect Shinkaruk to be in that January 5 game. He should be on Team Canada at the World Juniors in Sweden this winter. Bo Horvat and Brendan Gaunce also have good shots at that roster.

It’s not the end of the world. Sending down Bo Horvat and Shinkaruk, unfortuantely, means we’ll never see the Bo – Hunter – Bow Hunter line with the two kids and David Booth.

    • argoleas

      I think that anyway we look at this, these kids are better off being sent down. I dont think hat having them sacrificed for the sake of this season would have been a welcome step. Their development will benefit from this. We need to keep a close eye on this and hope that the team is done sacrificing their prospects and picks for more rentals like in the past. And indeed, I agree that whatever happens this year, I fully expect such players as Gaunce and Jansen and Corrado to be on the team next year full time, if not sometime this season.

      The question would be whose spot they will take? The top 9 forwards and top 5 defensemen look to be the same next year. This is what concerns me. I just wonder where the transitions will occur. On defense, Bieksa and Hamhuis are singed for another three seasons. With their age, they are the prime candidates for such replacement by a Corrado and (to throw a name out there) a Tommernes. But 3 years is too long.

      Who are the forwards that would be replaced? Apart from the Sedins, all veterans are signed for at least 2 years, and we know they will be resigned.

      So the issue is not whether the current team is over the hill or still able to go deep in the playoffs not just this year but next year as well. What is the plan for the transition to more youth? Where is the parallel to what not only San Jose is doing, but in every other successful club, especially Chicago? This worries me a lot, and I have not heard or seen anything that looks like a plan. All we hear is the abstract “we need to put more youth into the lineup”. Not reassuring.

      • Peachy

        These are prospects.

        There’s a very high failure rate with them and not just the ones associated with Gillis…

        If the Sedins are retained, where is there room for Gaunce, Horvat, Shinkaruk & Jensen next season?

        There’s one noteworthy spot (3LC) and possibly another if Kassian cannot hold down a top 9 winger spot.

        Corrado is probably the best bet to be in the lineup full-time in 2014-2015.

        And he’s more of a low-medium ceiling, high floor guy a la Tanev.

        Which is nice. But it’s not going to change our fortunes too much.

        The issue with the team is that it’s a mediocre present and a mediocre future…

        • andyg

          NM00! Love this guy! He will dump a ton of fecal matter in the sunniest day! Why? Because he knows it all! No, really! He has more inside knowledge and developmental know how that anyone including NHL personnel. I am so happy we’re gifted with his knowledge on a daily basis. No, really. And, no, I really don’t think he’s the biggest moron I’ve come across in a while. Really.

          Anyway, I’m glad the kids get to develop and aren’t pushed into anything. Bo, Hunter and Gaunce are at least a year away. If we sign the Sedins for three more years then let these guys come up in a couple of years and start with lesser roles. The bottom line is winning and if we’re winning then these guys won’t be pushed up here.

          If we’re not winning then maybe some of those no trade clause guys will want out. Who knows. It’s pretty impossible to comment on what the Canucks are thinking since we’re not privy to all of the info. There have been so obvious mistakes made by management but they’ve done some good too. I would like to see Gillis go after this year but I have to give his regime props for being instrumental in some of the best years in Canuck history.

        • Peachy

          If the sedins are retained? If the Sedins walk then this team is screwed,the best case scenario will be that we get connor mcdavid and he lives up to all the hype. Kesler said he hates losing you think he’ll stick around for a rebuild? Canucks without Sedins equals rebuild.

        • argoleas

          Of course prospects in any organization are subject to this caveat, which is why probably most rebuilds fail (actually would be nice to see stats on this). If we look at first round drafts for the last 13 years in wikipedia, very few of them make it. But this applies to all teams, so again, a season tanking is no assured panacea.

          As where this team is today, not sure I agree they are mediocre. This is the team that won presidents trophy two years ago, and twice ran into the worst team possible in the playoffs. I said it before that for this team to succeed a lot of things would need to align, but the potential for that to occur this year is there. Its is of course just as likely that things will not work out.

          I think you may be underselling Corrado, but that is something that only time will tell. Same for all the recent draft picks. Jensen to me is the current enigma (of course apart from Kassian). He had a good prospects camp, yet not a good training camp. I wonder if what he needs is the right coaching for the mental side of his game, as otherwise, they may lose him in the process. Hope to see Jensen have a good start at Utica, and just wonder if it may not be a good idea for Kassian to go there too. Seems to me that the Sedins-Kassian experiment has ended before it started, and unless the alternate plan is to turn Kessler’s line into our checking line and have a Booth/Santorelli/Kassian line that plays lots of minutes, we may see a repeat of last year with him. Just a lot of questions that should make for an interesting season (like in the Chinese proverb).

          • argoleas

            Not all rebuilds are equal, though.

            For example, the Panthers can rebuild all they want for as long as they want – and they have…

            But are they going to supplement the team by spending money when their young players emerge?

            By no means is rebuilding a guarantee of anything, of course.

            As for our prospects, people need to simmer down before projecting a bunch of hits.

            How do CoHo, Sauve, Schroeder, Rodin, KConn, Jensen, Gaunce & Mallet look now compared to the high hopes we had for them when drafted?

            The fact that three players (Grabner, CoHo & KConn) have taken steps forward in other organizations makes me question the current GM’s ability to evaluate young talent.

            Which is arguably the most important thing for this franchise at this point…

            As for Corrado, low-medium ceiling would be a 2nd/3rd pairing defenseman.

            Does he really project as a top 2 or 3 dman?

          • argoleas

            >> Not all rebuilds are equal, though.

            That is too true. So much goes into that, including, as you state, ownership commitment. Seems many teams have that commitment to spend to the limit, and glad to see that Vancouver does so. If I was a Panthers fan, I dont know how I would survive.

            In terms of prospects and talent, I believe that in the end, Gillis will be judged more on the picks since 2011, starting with Jensen, and especially Horvat and Shinkaruk, especially the former due to the Schneider trade. One has to remember that Jensen and Gaunce are late 1st round picks, which generally do not pan out too well unless its a deep draft year. So if they work out to being 3rd or 2nd line players, it would be a huge bonus.

            I have reservations about Schroeder’s future in Vancouver. He seems to me like the right kind of guy to put between Booth and Kassian, but with his injury, if Santorelli has success there, Schroeder may just find himself with no spot to take.

            Looks like Corrado could slot into the top 4, but I think he will surprise us. His development over the next 2 years will be interesting to watch, which is why I’m for the ‘demotion’ to Utica at this moment. If all goes well, then next season he should be playing full-time on the team. If there are no changes, then next year, Bieksa, Tanev, and Corrado should be eating up equal minutes, with a slow slide in Bieksa’s minutes. Then again, with Tortorella, who knows…

          • argoleas

            The Panthers simply don’t have the (hockey) market size to spend with the Canucks’ of the world and still make a healthy operating profit.

            There are some on this board that believe Mike Gillis is the reason for the substantial increase in franchise value.

            Of course, that’s ridiculous.

            Aside from the fact that the Leafs’ franchise value skyrocketed during Brian Burke’s tenure and it would be illogical to consider his general management tenure a success, there is little difference between where the Canucks ranked in 2008 and where they rank in 2013:

            http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/

            http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/31/nhl08_NHL-Team-Valuations_Rank.html

            Point being, this franchise can take a step back knowing that there will be fan support to finance the next winning Canucks team.

            The Panthers, though, really can’t.

            While tanking won’t guarantee anything, the comparison to small-mid market teams don’t hold true.

            And, of course, trying the same thing over and over again (with an older core) and expecting a different result would be insane…

          • argoleas

            Grabner, CoHo and KConn have taken steps forward on dumpster fires. Grabner is the only one of the three that you could argue is a quality NHLer, but not a great one. Him vs. Hansen? Kind of a wash.

            CoHo will be, and frankly Gillis knew and knows that. The poisonous situation, which AV initiated and exasperated, was untenable and he traded a young prospect who projects to be a second line scoring centre, which is what Henrik will be for the next 3-5 years at least, for a young prospect who projects to be a power winger, which is an organizational need. Coho is the better prospect, but Gillis got a cancer out of the dressing room and addressed a need as best he could.

            Now whether resigning Higgins, Hansen and Burrows for 10 million creates a “too many second and a half line wingers” problem along with drafting Jensen and Shinkaruk is wise is another discussion, but Gillis’ talent evaluation can’t be blamed in the CoHo trade.

            As for Connaughton, we’ll see just how well he does on Dallas. I don’t have high hopes. Just because there’s an open roster slot does not make you a real NHLer…

          • argoleas

            “Gillis’ talent evaluation can’t be blamed in the CoHo trade”

            You realize that Mike Gillis utilized a 10th overall pick on CoHo, right?

            When Myers, Karlsson, Gardiner, Sbisa, Del Zotto, Eberle, Ennis & Carlson, among others, were selected after him in the 1st round…

            So did Gillis bugger up the selection, the trade or both?

            Or is Zack Kassian worth so much more than the 2nd and 3rd it took to acquire Steve Bernier…

            I suggest you look up what Gillis was saying about CoHo when he drafted him.

            Character, integrity, leadership…

            Frankly, it was good for Cody to get out of Vancouver.

            Why should he work in an organization that misdiagnosed his injury and publicly called him out?

          • JCDavies

            I’m a regular reader here, and while I don’t usually comment, I’m feeling compelled to do so now.

            NM00 is critical of the team, maybe overly so at times? Maybe. I’d love to see somebody ACTUALLY ENGAGE with the criticisms posted instead of just resorting to name-calling and dismissing the guy as a troll.

            I get not caring for constant negativity, but I also think it’s important to not be a bunch of blind homers and to see things objectively. I’m not entirely enthused about the direction of this team over the last year or two, but it seems anybody who expresses this just gets constant down votes and is labelled a ‘troll’ or a ‘bad fan’. I don’t think this team is anywhere near where it was a few years ago, and I think they’ve been surpassed.

            It isn’t all doom and gloom, but the things that are wrong with the team are usually more interesting topics for discussion than are the ones everybody agrees with. Comment sections on sites with a smaller audience such as this can be great places for facilitating conversation; it’s a shame that people don’t seem to have any time for engaging with conversation that puts forth ideas they don’t agree with.

            How about, instead of getting all riled up and dismissing the guy and his positions (which are well reasoned and backed up, I might add), put forth a counter? Explain WHY he is wrong if you feel that way.

          • argoleas

            Because it’s a lot more fun to dream about Clarkson, Grabovski, Horton, Cullen, Gordon & Luongo for Dipietro plus than look at Capgeek and be nostalgiac for the time when Mike Gillis looked like a genius 🙂

          • argoleas

            If you think NM00 backs up his rubbish with anything resembling facts, you may want to see a psychiatrist. He enjoys creating stats and takes various numbers to support his BS. When BS is used to back up/support BS then it only stands to reason it’s all BS.

            Let’s try my theory and see if it works on his future posts, shall we. 🙂

    • andyg

      Brian, Brian ,Brian. You need to give this personal vendetta a break as all this hatred is not good for your health. Plus you have a job now so you just need to let it go!

      I would rather wait a year or 2 then bring these kids into this insane market before they are able to deal with the pressure that comes with it.

        • andyg

          But unfortunately it’s still perfectly descriptive of your attitude. Always looking to complain like you’re MG is your more successful older brother.

          Gillis very specifically outlined that while they are worthy of making the team, it’s known that 18 kids who jump right into the NHL might do well the first year (or might not) but almost always take a step back the year after. This is news to no one who looks at the data. Throwing kids into the NHL is a recipe for creating habits that are later damaging to their development.

          • argoleas

            “Gillis very specifically outlined that while they are worthy of making the team, it’s known that 18 kids who jump right into the NHL might do well the first year (or might not) but almost always take a step back the year after. This is news to no one who looks at the data. Throwing kids into the NHL is a recipe for creating habits that are later damaging to their development.”

            Where are the players from 2008-2012? Are they all 18?

            There’s Kassian and Schroeder I guess…

  • andyg

    Using no move clauses for your core players.Some say it leaves no room for youth others say that it helps with the salary cap and keeps a team stable allowing you to bring youth into a winning environment.

    Chicargo has 9 and Canucks have 10 counting Lou. Chicago won the cup and did it with players like Saad,

  • antro

    Ben Kuzma had some interesting quotes from Tortorella on Shinkaruk (whose name I can’t seem to get right without looking…I keep thinking “Shrink-wrap”). From twitter (don’t know how to embed):

    Torts on Shinkaruk: “We do battle drills with Hunter. He tries like hell, but he’s 18. I really like the camp for him and Bo (Horvat) (1/2)

    (2/2 “But we’ve got to be aware of the process and what’s best for them in the long run.

    Not surprisingly, they’re young and they need to get bigger and stronger to play against men. Still, it seems different than what Torts said about Gaunce. I don’t know if he said anything nice about Jensen.

    • argoleas

      I suspect most Canuck fans have higher hopes for Horvat & Shinkaruk than they do for Jensen & Gaunce.

      And Kassian & Schroeder for that matter…

      But there’s a saying in baseball to not get excited about a prospect until they reach AA.

      And the recent history with CoHo, Sauve, Schroeder, Rodin, KConn, Jensen, Gaunce & Mallet should temper expectations; let’s give them a year or two before projecting them in the Canucks lineup…

      • argoleas

        ??? Hey, Donny D!psh!t, I thought you were tired of Gillis and his lies! Because there was no reset and none of the young prospects are in the opening day lineup! Did you hit your head and get an actual rational thought?!

      • argoleas

        There’s a saying in Hockey, “This isn’t baseball you pussy willow”, well, I added the willow just to keep it PG. But you do tend to mention baseball quite a bit, and it’s pretty damn irrelevant for people who don’t follow or like baseball. Where is Double A here, the ECHL? Triple A must be the AHL, so basically there’s lots to be excited about.

        Personally, I’m with Ted. I love the fact that the three we sent down will have another year to fill out mentally and physically. Huge bonus, these three will play pivotal roles on their teams and eat minutes. Massive bonus that they are all in the running for Team Canada and may just be teammates there. At the very least they may just get another camp together without any effort from the Canucks…that would bring the count up to 3 in a year. If your building prospects for your team I’d argue this is exactly the kind of thing you want in your system, but not many teams get. It’s rare, and I’m going to enjoy it.

        • argoleas

          Sending the prospects down to their teams is indeed the best plan. Would love the see all three in red and white this winter. The combined experience would be much more valuable than playing 7 minutes/night on the 4th line. Plus, by next April-June, they may be available for playoff games, with an extra year of experience. I dont recall what the rules are regarding this, especially how the contracts are affected by playoff games, but I do recall Igilna taking this route.

          • argoleas

            I fully agree, they’ve filled out and matured a little more by then. Time does answer a lot of questions, but that’s everywhere for everybody not just hockey. That’s why it’s going to be fun for me this year. I don’t like having all the answers. But I like the cards we’ve been dealt with our top 3 forward prospects. Like I keep mentioning, circumstances like that do not come along very often for teams, if at all.

  • argoleas

    So, ugh. Guess the teams not getting younger?

    All summer, “we need to get younger. We will get younger”.

    1 day before season starts: Canucks team is older than year prior.

    Gotta love Canucks management. Being inept has grown into an art form for them. I believe nothing they say anymore.

  • argoleas

    The Canucks of Christmas past. They have no past, no present and certainly no future. I would be surprised if a franchise who cares about winning did these things but not the Canucks. And for this franchise to be able to pull the hood over so many fans leads me to believe that the fans down here are not very bright. Well, two riots already proved that but you can say booze made you riot but you can;t say booze makes you support such a team. Torts is going to regret he came to this town of mediocreship.

  • argoleas

    There needs to be RELEGATION in the NHL like they do in European football. I’m sick and tired of crappy teams stinking up the league. If these multi millionaires knew they’d be playing in the junior league, they would show up for every game, not half the games. And we all have seen games where the team takes a night off, such a lack of respect towards paying fans. The Canucks are one of those teams.

  • argoleas

    Josh, if you’ve been around reading then you know that Nostradamus M.F. has done his fair share of name calling and finger waggling. Let’s not be naive and paint him as the victim here. A lot was very willingly brought on by himself, while people were begging him to back off a little. While I like the guy, he dishes as much as he takes. If you need a cause, there’s plenty more deserving around.

    • argoleas

      To be clear, I could care less about the name calling.

      As I’ve said, feel free to throw bile in my direction.

      This ‘Ted’ guy seems to be enjoying himself…

      • argoleas

        And you’re not enjoying it? Come on man, you love poking the hornet’s nest and slinging bile. “Strawman” ring a bell?

        This a thread about Shinkaruk and other prospects getting sent down? How many times do you mention Shinkaruk as opposed to, say, Mike Gillis? You obviously know the hot button topics by now, yet keep pressing them on a threadly basis. There’s a reason for that isn’t there? No need to get all magnanimous at this point, no regular around here is going to buy it. We all know what you are about. I can respect the fact you remain true to that stance, but it isn’t right all the time nor is it agreeable. That is by your own design. Please don’t pretend it’s everybody else, it insults my lack of intelligence.

        • JCDavies

          There’s no point in arguing with NoMind00. He rarely makes a coherent point. Add to that his attitude where he thinks he knows it all and you have yourself one big time loser. He’s the type that enjoys ‘getting off the grid’ and wearing tin foil hats so the aliens can’t read his mind. He really has some mental health issues and it’s best he just be left to his delusions. I will admit he is entertaining. He’s much like Spider from GOODFELLAS.

  • argoleas

    I think the point here is one of credibility. Gillis clearly stated this team needed a reset. Torts says this team needs young players injected in to the line up and fast. Yet, what’s happening? The team is injecting throw sways from crummy teams. Somehow I doubt any of you are lining up to get a Zac Dalpe jersey. Gillis and Torts said this had to happen but all that’s changed from last year’s team is trading awa the #1 goalie and letting someveerans leave and replacing them with other people’s trash. Sometimes when you do that you find treasure. Other times it’s just trash.

    • argoleas

      But what is surprising about this?

      Look at Gillis’ transactions leading up to this offseason.

      What exactly could any GM reasonably be expected to do to fix the mess?

      By the end of the season, the ‘Fire Gillis’ t-shirts will be prevalent just like they were for the end of JP Ricciardi’s tenure with the Blue Jays…

    • JCDavies

      From a game theoretical standpoint, providing free truthful information to the people you are competing against is a ridiculous position to take. As fans, we shouldn’t expect or want the GM of our team to willingly give away credible information.

  • JCDavies

    Man! All this drama and bickering over a team that’s never amounted to anything, and will not amount to anything this year. Same team, worse than the one that went to the finals. Chill out, no need to argue over what ifs when the team hasn’t done nothing squat. It’s like arguing about a sack of rancid cow dung. Save your energy, of all the things in this world, the Canuck’s are not worth it! LOL

  • JCDavies

    Yes Gillis said there would be a reset and all the kids would get every opportunity to make the team, and they did and there was. The Canucks team has reset, from an up and down circus act to a disciplined protect your zone team. At least I hope that is true… The Sedins are embracing Torts system and all around play, in fact he said they were pissed off they didn’t play on the PK. Funny that the Swedish coach had them out there, but maybe that says more about AV than anything…. Except maybe sitting garrison on the P.P. There is your reset, and if there are vets that out play #1 picks then they should play. Going young for just the sake of going young is what Fla does. The kids will have their time and if they are going to be great, no reason to burn a year of ELC on 3/4th line duty