Canucks Army Roundtable: Optimism?

Roundtable

The trade deadline has come and passed, but the buzz around Canucks nation lives on, as the Canucks shipped out two veterans for a couple prospects, stocking their cupboards a tiny bit more and starting on a path most of Canucks nation wants them to go on. It signaled that the Canucks had finally accepted that they needed to rebuild, get younger and move on from the teams of the past. With that in mind, I asked our writers if they are more optimistic about the future of the team following the deadline. Let us know what you think in the comments!

Question: Did this week’s trade deadline change your perspective on the state of this franchise?

Always90Four

The team hasn’t exactly spun a 180 but it’s a start. I’ll need to see some more progress and a hefty signing/trade in offseason before I plan a parade. I like Bo Horvats progression so there is hope.

Taylor Perry

I would say my current perspective on the state of the franchise is pretty much the same. The Canucks are still a lottery team, but they have made a much more explicit move towards rebuilding. I would therefore say I’m more optimistic about the future of the franchise now than one week ago. There is still a lot of work to do and they need to continue loading up on talented prospects with high ceilings. This trade deadline would seem to indicate management is heading in that direction. Let’s hope they stay the course.

Vanessa Jang

I wouldn’t say it totally changed my perspective, I’m just glad that they embraced the status of the team. It’s been long overdue and, although it was sad to see Burr and Hansen go, it was necessary.

Jackson McDonald

I could write an entire article on this subject, and may very well before the season is over.
It’s not going to be a popular answer with some of our readers, but no, not really. The issue is mostly to do with their message. The two moves they made this week were great, but we’re still talking about a lottery team that thought it was a playoff team up until about a week ago, and if it weren’t for the mumps outbreak, we may have seen a similar deadline to last year.  
I’m just not convinced yet that management is really set on actually going through a patient rebuild and choosing development and team-building over winning now. After all, this is still the team that signed Brandon Sutter, Loui Eriksson, Derek Dorsett, and Luca Sbisa to ridiculous contracts because they thought they could compete for a playoff spot. A couple of great moves doesn’t really negate that.
They’ve also got a long way to go before they’ve amassed the type of future star power that can compete with other up-and-comers. I think the world of Goldobin and Dahlen as prospects, but Matthews/Laine/McDavid they are not.
The deadline was encouraging, but not enough to undo almost three seasons of what’s been highly questionable decision making at best.  I tip my hat to the front office for the past week, but I’m still not convinced they won’t turn right back around to what they’ve been doing since they got here once next season rolls around.

Matthew Henderson

It’s a start, I think, but they need to show much more that they are willing to commit to this. They have to continue to sell off, give the younger guys a chance and not sign unnecessary players to fill roster spots that could be occupied by the youth. However, both deadline trades were a win for the team, and the bodes well for the future.

  • Kanucked

    I was very disappointed with the TDL last year and the off season.

    This year’s TDL, different story. Benning received excellent value for Burrows and Hansen.

    Since the deadline, Linden has also stated that they will not be buyers in free agency especially for long-term contracts.

    In that context, I don’t understand the general tone of this article. They tried the quick rebuild. I didn’t work. Benning acknowledged this.

    Given the current make up of the team, perhaps the panel can identify what they would do to meek them feel more positive. Should Beening have traded the Sedins, Sutter, or Edler at the TDL? They all have NTCs so that would be difficult. What about Tanev? Is that what they’re suggesting?

    If the course of the team was so bad, and they did something different, shouldn’t that inspire some optimism?

    They added two really good prospects. What else could they have done?

    I guess every team should give up if they don’t have a Mathews/Laine/McDavid because they are so easy to get.

  • Braindead Benning

    @Jackson

    I could write an entire article on this subject, and may very well before the season is over.

    Looking forward to reading

    also, great perspective and overview couldnt agree with you more.

    cheers

  • Bud Poile

    @ Jackson McDonald

    Spare us.

    Henrik was a .89 PPG player in Benning’s first year and he’s a .603 PPG player two years later.

    Benning addressed this issue to the twins,first and foremost, and then to the media and fans when he made the decision to move Burr and Jannik.

    If you don’t understand what this implies you haven’t been following this team. At all.

    • Freud

      Henrik was .70 PPG the season before Benning took over. If you’re judging Henrik’s scoring on the decision to finally rebuild, by did this week’s moves not begin in the summer Benning took over?

      Benning did address the issue. He seriously misjudged the need for a rebuild when he took over. He tried to compete and not only lost out on futures, but failed miserably at competing at the same time.

      And he did so with two of the strongest drafts in a decade right in front of him.

      Spare us indeed.

      • Bud Poile

        Hello? Hello?

        Benning was hired by Linden who was hired by Aquaman.

        He went with giving the Sedins another shot.

        Now it’s over.

        It’s like you’re a Braindead instead of a Freud.

        • Fortitude00

          Bud do you know what a NO trade or no Movement clause mean?
          When Benning arrived the Sedins stated they didn’t want to move.
          Edler refused to waive his also which is why he is still here.

          • Bud Poile

            Garrison?

            Hamhuis?

            Hansen?

            Burrows?

            The Sedins remain because ownership wants them to remain.They were this franchise for 10 years.

            Benning went with giving the Sedins another shot but they have regressed to the point that they no longer carry this team.

            Youth will play the larger role going forward and the direction is now the future instead of the past.

            That day has come-just came and went-and most here missed it.

        • Braindead Benning

          It’s like you’re a Braindead instead of a Freud.

          LOL… good one “Bud”

          Everyone is entitled to their own opinion…it’s just that yours is stupid.

      • Pat Quinn Way

        Amen to that Jackson – it’s about time this trolling Bud character was put firmly in his place by the staff here..

        Agree with everything you wrote (except supporting the Hansen trade) so looking forward to your piece.

        Don’t forget to remind those still calling Benning a ‘draft guru’ how he missed out on Tkachuk, Ehlers and Nylander…any one of which would’ve put us miles further ahead than we are now.

        • Fortitude00

          Its way too early to see how those players careers go. Cody Hodgson started out strong and faded quickly so did Petr Nedved.

          I think the writers all had decent comments and I think Vanessa summed it best with how I feel about the deadline.

          Time to pray for some lottery winning the next couple years so we can pick the prime players.

          • Pat Quinn Way

            I’m not talking about ‘careers’ though. We might be waiting 10-20 years to judge and discuss that, and I can assure you I won’t be on here by then.

            I’m talking about ‘now’ because that’s all we have. It’s not about five or ten years down the road in sport these days, it’s what have you done for me lately.

            Anyone with intelligence can see that Elhers, Tkachuk and Nylander are much better options to move a franchise forward than the picks Benning chose over them. They are the type of game changers the author alluded to in this piece that we just don’t have but should’ve, the numbers don’t lie! Other than Bo Horvat there are no potential game changers on the team.

            It’s three strikes and out by Benning on that for me.

      • Bud Poile

        “This is not journalism, this is a blog. We don’t have to be nice, or adhere to your version of “fair”. We can tell it like it is, which is the beauty of writing on a blog.” Jeremy Davis

      • Carl Jung

        If you were an employee working in one of my businesses, you would be immediately fired.

        Consumers have the right to criticize the performance of poor employees.

        It actually improves the business.

        Who is your boss?

        This is unacceptable behavior from an employee to a consumer.

        • Jackson McDonald

          Speaking of business, Bain Capital identified 3 types of customers: promoters, neutrals, and detractors. While the former two can be forces for growth under the right circumstances, detractors have no positive effect. Their aim is solely to knock things down, and their mind is made up often before they even consume your product. That’s bud in nutshell, especially given how he responds the same way to positive articles as he does to pieces with an uglier tone.

          You can’t flip a detractor into a promoter, you can only limit the damage they do. Bud has generally served to make the comment section an unwelcoming place not just for the authors but also for a lot of the commenters as well. Since ignoring Bud hasn’t had an effect, the least I could do is occasionally remind him that CA’s readership is constantly growing and if all he is going to do is be rude to other readers he doesn’t need to come back if he doesn’t want to, especially because this isn’t Tim Hortons and I don’t get brownie points for smiling and being polite while someone makes the work area a nuisance to be in for staff + customers.

          • Bud Poile

            “Bud has generally served to make the comment section an unwelcoming place not just for the authors but also for a lot of the commenters as well. Since ignoring Bud hasn’t had an effect, the least I could do is occasionally remind him that CA’s readership is constantly growing and if all he is going to do is be rude to other readers he doesn’t need to come back if he doesn’t want to, especially because this isn’t Tim Hortons and I don’t get brownie points for smiling and being polite while someone makes the work area a nuisance to be in for staff + customers.” J. McD

            I see,so when I disagree with you or any blogger here you get to remind me I’m a nuisance and there is a popularity contest that usurps opinion.

            That’s not how your blog works,Jackson. Read Jeremy’s quote again.You guys aren’t always nice or accurate or fair but we’re still here to voice our opinions (unless we break CA rules that are very rarely applied,anyways).

          • Freud

            oh Laughable Bud

            Most pieces are evidence based opinion pieces. You don’t disagree, you whine and suggest, without your own evidence, that the opinion presented is always wrong because you know better.

            When you do decide to dip your toe into the world of evidence, you bungle it, misunderstand and end up telling us Boeser can be a free agent this summer.

            When your points are proven hypocritical, you reply without ever addressing the points made.

            I suggest you move over to the Canucks.com message boards before you’re banned.

            There’s lots of blind cheerleading there

            You’ll be happy, we’ll be happy, it’s win-win for everyone.

          • Bud Poile

            Freud,just yesterday you called me both senile and stupid. That’s just one day’s offering.

            These are one of CA’s main ground rules for banishment.

            After consistently penning personal attacks (that go on without admonishment,never mind retribution) you now feel free to call to banish me.

            Read my reply to ‘Pat Quinn Way’ above.

          • Pat Quinn Way

            “Bud has generally served to make the comment section an unwelcoming place not just for the authors but also for a lot of the commenters as well.” – Jackson McDonald

            Wow – what a putdown from Jackson and bang on too. This trolling fool Bud is actually making the forum unwelcoming for the writers and commenters – totally unacceptable.

            Bud, please leave (or even better be banned). No one wants you here, there it is in black n white from a respected member of the Vancouver media community. Just GO!

          • Bud Poile

            There are a set of rules for CA banishment and I attempt to abide by them.

            However,I have been slighted on this forum many times for my hockey opinions so until CA starts weeding out you folks I am going to be here voicing my say just as you have yours.

          • Carl Jung

            Do you notice how Ryan and Vanessa rarely-if-ever are criticized for their contributions to Canucks Army?

            And when they are criticized, do you notice how they remain professional in their dealings with consumers and use these criticisms as growth opportunities?

            It’s possible to be snarky and analytical without being so defensive (see Charron, Cam and Jessop, Rhys).

            While the CA readership may be growing, the calibre of bloggers has gone downhill dramatically since Cam, Rhys, Josh, Moneypuck and now Drance have departed for greener pastures.

            Just think of where readership could be if a couple of replacement level bloggers were traded or replaced in free agency.

  • ManicSt

    @Jackson McDonald
    I would like to read the article – not because I think I’ll agree/disagree with it, but because I enjoy any kind of detailed analysis that is thought-provoking.
    I mention it because I think it’s kinda harsh for someone to tell you zip it like that.

  • Carl Jung

    A scorched earth rebuild is an organizational decision which falls 100% on ownership.

    People that have no skin in the game (and have likely never even run a small business) are not an authority on the subject.

    The bloggers here play with Monopoly money and do not even have the stones to own up to their (numerous) failed predictions.

    When Linden and Benning took over, the Sedins had just signed fresh 4 year extensions, Luongo and Schneider were gone and Kesler had a pending trade request.

    Not only has Benning turned over 75% of the roster, he has moved 5 players with inherited no trade clauses in 3 years.

    If even one writer can name another team that has moved 5 no trade clauses in the last 3 years, perhaps the inferiority-complex-blogger-supremacy has an ounce of merit.

    If even one writer can name another team in the salary cap era that has attempted a scorched earth rebuild while Hall of Fame franchise icons like the Sedins were on the roster, perhaps these bloggers are smarter than they let on.

    The Flames did not scorch earth with Iginla on the roster.

    The Leafs did not scorch earth with Sundin on the roster.

    “In an age where other Canadian teams are seeing their team’s longtime stars head for greener pastures, it’s nice to know we’ll get the twins in Vancouver for four more years”

    http://canucksarmy.com/2013/11/1/daniel-henrik-sedin-contract-extension-vancouver-canucks

    This is the CA take when the Sedins signed their contracts.

    Where were the calls for dumping the Sedins and starting a scorched earth rebuild at that point?

    The bloggers here just play the hindsight game.

    It does not matter how many times they fail at this game since there is zero accountability.

    The reality is that Benning and Linden took over the Canucks when they had arguably the worst under-25 talent in the NHL, a slew of no trade clauses and two future Hall of Famers that were/are destined to start and end their career with Canucks.

    If the organization was seriously going to go scorched earth, they never should have signed the Sedins to immovable contracts.

    The Tony Gallagher approach to writing isn’t going to improve limited bloggers like Jackson & JD.

    And that should be the goal for millenials who presumably want to graduate from trolling one day.

  • Steamer

    No optimism so long as Desjardins remains the coach. Unacceptable to continue over-playing Sedins at this stage. Unacceptable to continue playing Megna – he’s had 3/4 of a season – give the new guys some rein!
    Should be seeing what Subban/McEneny can do rather than playing Larsen/Biega. Here’s an idea: bench Eriksson so at least he knows that while his salary may be guaranteed, his ice-time isn’t. Coach needs to go.

  • puckluck

    If Benning can move Edler before the expansion draft… or somehow get McPhee to pick Edler…. then this will be a very young team. I’m happy with the veterans who will be left in Dorsett, Tanev, Sutter, Loui and the Sedin’s (for 1 more year).

    Loui has become a hate target, but he is a much better player than Willie is allowing on many nights. I’m hoping that Willie has enough sense to leave LE with Horvat. Loui has been at his best with a C like Bo (see Brad Richards in Dallas e.g.).

  • janmoh

    I’m just not convinced yet that management is really set on actually going through a patient rebuild and choosing development and team-building over winning now. After all, this is still the team that signed Brandon Sutter, Loui Eriksson, Derek Dorsett, and Luca Sbisa to ridiculous contracts because they thought they could compete for a playoff spot. A couple of great moves doesn’t really negate that.

    They’ve also got a long way to go before they’ve amassed the type of future star power that can compete with other up-and-comers. I think the world of Goldobin and Dahlen as prospects, but Matthews/Laine/McDavid they are not.

    The deadline was encouraging, but not enough to undo almost three seasons of what’s been highly questionable decision making at best.  

    The first year we had 101 points and Daniel Sedin was 9th in scoring and we finished 2nd in the Pacific division. That first year was very successful. You can make the argument that it was a “deceiving” year but it wasn’t almost 3 seasons of highly questionable decisions.
    Also you’re giving ownership a pass when I believe they didn’t want to rebuild. Now I think they are in sync with Linden and Benning on a rebuild.

  • Colenuck

    I’ve been a Canucks Army reader for years now, while I don’t always agree with what some of the guys write I do respect their opinion and absolutely LOVE that we as a fanbase have guys who are willing to put themselves out there and make content.
    I’ve notice Bud on here a lot, he never has anything constructive to add to a convo, he’s ALWAYS condecending and just comes off as a jerk.
    Bud, if you don’t agree with these guys, that’s fine, but there’s 2 ways to respond: don’t reply and just ignore it OR have an adult discussion about why you don’t agree.
    Grow up, stop acting like a jerk, and learn how to communicate like an adult instead of an internet troll.

    • janmoh

      I couldn’t DISAGREE more! I like to read the comments more than the articles and Bud has very thoughtful comments about the Canucks.
      He’s pro management and others like Dirty30 , Dirk , and Braindead are anti-management. That’s what makes the article section so interesting! I like reading the diverse opinions. Don’t ban anybody – let everyone have their say.