Delivering the Sauce: Draft Day Reactions

Jeff Angus
July 01 2013 11:20AM

The CanucksArmy crew did a fantastic job of covering what was a crazy Sunday in the NHL. I found out about the Cory Schneider trade while driving back to the city from a little Seattle vacation – reading the instant reaction on Twitter was well worth the expensive data roaming charge.

There have been many opinions on the Luongo/Schneider controversy/situation over the past while. If nothing else, the trade of Schneider to New Jersey signals the end of one of the most unique/bizarre non-trades in recent memory. Schneidongo is dead and gone. Lost in the craziness yesterday – the Devils are getting a fantastic goalie and a true professional. Schneider waited patiently for almost 10 years to get a chance to start in Vancouver, and just when he was promised the role, he found himself splitting time with the best goalie in franchise history before getting shipped out of town in a surprise move...

Schneider very likely pictured winning a Cup with the Canucks (insert joke about organizational ineptitude here). He was groomed as the present – and future – of the team. But here we are, back with Luongo. Hockey is a game of mistakes, and that doesn’t include just the on ice product. Mike Gillis will get criticized for sitting on his hands by not doing something last summer, as the new CBA essentially killed whatever plans he had of trading Luongo and keeping Schneider - but could or should he have seen that coming?

Read on for more thoughts on the trade, as well as other news and notes from the weekend.

Bo Knows

I don’t know a lot about Horvat. Outside of the WHL, I am familiar with the top prospects from this draft class. However, in the span of 20 seconds, he was compared to Ryan O’Reilly, Patrice Bergeron, and the Real McCoy. Guess which comparison was handed out by Pierre McGuire?

Goaltenders simply aren’t valued as highly as skaters. Schneider will have more of an impact over the next while than Horvat will, even if he turns out to be a great NHL center. But NHL teams aren’t in the business of giving up much for goaltenders right now. Why?

I think there are a few reasons.

For one, teams like to develop talent in house. It’s cheaper, and it lets you get an extended look at a guy before giving him the reigns. Look at Jimmy Howard, Jonathan Quick, and Corey Crawford for examples. And for two, there are a lot of goaltenders who develop later than skaters. There is no such thing as a “sure thing” young goaltender. They all face struggles (even Carey Price) along the way.

And a third reason – limited demand. There are 60 goaltending spots in the NHL. There are definitely more than 60 NHL caliber goaltenders on the planet. The number of NHL teams that “need” a number one goaltender is very low. Schneider would have been an upgrade to many teams, but it wouldn’t have been worth giving up a significant asset or two to make the move.

I’m also really glad I didn’t waste any time writing the draft to a “farewell Luongo” column. He’s the best Canuck in the history of the organization, and the fact that he is returning is great news. His new, relaxed persona shines through in his consistently-amazing Twitter account, and it is reflected in his media interactions, too. Luongo is 34 and he may not have as many years left as Schneider, but the Canucks have a while to see what they have in Eddie Lack and Joacim Eriksson.

Shinkaruk

I loved this pick. And not just because he was ranked near the top 10 on many lists (one pet peeve with the draft – teams that typically do “well” are the ones who just pick the highest ranked players according to Central Scouting). Shinkaruk is going to be a really good player. And unlike most prospects in this draft class, I am familiar with his game.

He trains in the summer with Sidney Crosby’s trainer – Andy O’Brien. I asked O’Brien about Shinkaruk last summer:

"Q: I got to see Hunter Shinkaruk play a few weeks ago. His upside is obvious – a ton of skill, speed, and a real head for the game. Do you see any parallels between him and Sidney at all?"

"A: Their bodies and skill sets are quite different, but Hunter’s has a similar type of determination.  You can see it in the way he tries to hang on the puck to make a play, and in his level of compete.  I think that’s the area they would be most similar.  He also has a very inspiring love for the game and is a real student of the game, much like Sidney."

Edler

From what I have heard, the Canucks also shopped Alex Edler somewhat aggressively on Sunday. Unsurprisingly, there was a lot of interest in him. For all of his faults, he is still a fantastic two-way defenseman who does a lot of things well. He's also twenty-seven and on an excellent contract. Why was his name out there? I think the team wanted to see what they could get in return. Keith Ballard is on waivers currently, and he will likely have to be bought out as I don't see any team picking him up at his current price tag...

Overall Assessment

The Canucks managed to land two really good forward prospects, and they also finally cleared up the goaltending controversy that has been driving TV ratings and paper sales for many months. Gillis may have erred in his process (the ultimate downfall here was the new CBA rules punishing teams that signed back-diving contracts), but he did the right thing by keeping Luongo and moving Schneider...

By the time Luongo’s prime is over, Lack or Ericsson may be starting goaltender material. Or the Canucks could find another Swede to do the job. Or perhaps they can find a willing trading partner with two good goalies. I hear you can get good ones for pretty cheap nowadays. 

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Jeff shares his Canuck-related thoughts with the Army a few times per week. His work can also be found over at DobberHockey.com, as well as his personal blog, AngusCertified.com. Give him a follow on Twitter @anguscertified.
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#1 adam
July 01 2013, 11:50AM
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Generally agree with author. But bummed that the canucks did not get anyone who will make an impact during the coming season. It's the same team basically with a different coach.

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#2 van
July 01 2013, 11:57AM
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Short term, we're kind of where we expected to be. One goaltender traded and Ballard on the verge of a buy-out. Personnel is otherwise the same, with all the same issues.

Draft day wasn't a success or a failure for the Canucks. Just did what they had to do and no more.

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#3 Dman
July 01 2013, 12:01PM
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Well we now have prospects with the cool names too, Bo, Hunter and Zack. So that's something. I am personally good with the moves althought it could have been handled better. I don't think they are done yet though.

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#4 Josh
July 01 2013, 12:15PM
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Grabner, Hodgson, and Schneider. Oh, what might have been for this one bright Canucks team.

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#5 prosser.joel@gmail.com
July 01 2013, 12:57PM
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Josh wrote:

Grabner, Hodgson, and Schneider. Oh, what might have been for this one bright Canucks team.

I don't disagree, but I do have a question.

Do you guys ever see people ragging on Florida for letting Grabner go? Gillis gets ripped constantly for trading him, but at least he got something (Ballard+Oreskovich) for a guy that we didn't have a spot for.

Tallon traded for him, and then just let him walk as a waiver wire pickup to the Islanders a few months later.

IMHO, that was the far worse error. Gillis may have made a mistake (according to popular opinion), but Tallon traded for a guy he then gave up on a few months later. Even if FLA was just in it to dump Ballard's salary, you'd think they could have at least gotten a prospect or draft pick...

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#6 Chris Ross
July 01 2013, 12:57PM
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It's going to be really interesting to see how this all turns out. Good draft but clearly Gillis botched the Luongo thing. Canucks can still contend but only time will tell to see if they actually can pull it off.

http://chrisross91.wordpress.com/2013/07/01/man-without-a-plan-2-0/

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#7 NM00
July 01 2013, 01:09PM
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@prosser.joel@gmail.com

"Do you guys ever see people ragging on Florida for letting Grabner go? Gillis gets ripped constantly for trading him, but at least he got something (Ballard+Oreskovich) for a guy that we didn't have a spot for."

Gillis received a $4.2 million 3rd pairing defenseman with negative trade value.

He didn't have a spot for Ballard, either.

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#8 Josh
July 01 2013, 01:14PM
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@prosser.joel@gmail.com

I get the whole 20/20 hindsight POV but we tend to let go of our young prospects without getting full value for them.

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#9 NM00
July 01 2013, 01:15PM
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"Shinkaruk is going to be a really good player."

He's a prospect who slipped massively on draft day to the back of the first round.

Let's temper expectations a touch. He's prospect porn.

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#10 KleptoKlown
July 01 2013, 01:25PM
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@NM00

Hamhuis was not yet a Canuck. When GMMG acquired Ballard, it was thought he would be in the top 4. Also, the season before the Canucks traded for Ballard and signed Hamhuis, they had horrendous injuries all throughout their defensive core.

It's easy to say this was a bad trade today, but when it actually happend, the Canucks were desperate for defense, and no one was saying it was a bad trade. Gillis made the right choice in acquiring Ballard, no one could have known it would have played out this bad.

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#11 NM00
July 01 2013, 01:45PM
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KleptoKlown wrote:

Hamhuis was not yet a Canuck. When GMMG acquired Ballard, it was thought he would be in the top 4. Also, the season before the Canucks traded for Ballard and signed Hamhuis, they had horrendous injuries all throughout their defensive core.

It's easy to say this was a bad trade today, but when it actually happend, the Canucks were desperate for defense, and no one was saying it was a bad trade. Gillis made the right choice in acquiring Ballard, no one could have known it would have played out this bad.

It was/is entirely predictable that $4.2 million for a 3rd pairing defenseman was poor cap management.

What stopped Gillis from trading Ballard after acquiring Hamhuis?

What has stopped Gillis from trading Ballard the last 2 years?

Which is worse? A $4.2 million utility defenseman or a $5.33 million backup goalie?

Hopefully the myth that the Canucks are good cap managers has finally died.

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#12 Jackson
July 01 2013, 01:49PM
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Why didn't Vancouver trade Schneider to philly for Sean Couturier.

Immediate help for an aging core. Horvat is still a couple of years away from being that 2 way center you want.

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#13 Fred-65
July 01 2013, 01:57PM
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Jackson wrote:

Why didn't Vancouver trade Schneider to philly for Sean Couturier.

Immediate help for an aging core. Horvat is still a couple of years away from being that 2 way center you want.

Because Holmgren didn't want to do it

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#14 NM00
July 01 2013, 02:14PM
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Jackson wrote:

Why didn't Vancouver trade Schneider to philly for Sean Couturier.

Immediate help for an aging core. Horvat is still a couple of years away from being that 2 way center you want.

The real question is why didn't Gillis use Schneider & Hodgson to get into the bidding for Jeff Carter's services to improve the team in front of Luongo.

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#15 JCDavies
July 01 2013, 02:27PM
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@NM00

"What stopped Gillis from trading Ballard after acquiring Hamhuis?

What has stopped Gillis from trading Ballard the last 2 years?"

100% agree with this.

It has nothing to do with the original trade, though.

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#16 NM00
July 01 2013, 02:31PM
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@JCDavies

Hamhuis made Ballard redundant.

In some ways, it is like the goalie situation. People can debate where the mistake was made. But it is quite clear in both situations that a big mistake was made SOMEWHERE in the process.

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#17 JCDavies
July 01 2013, 02:31PM
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@prosser.joel@gmail.com

"Do you guys ever see people ragging on Florida for letting Grabner go? Gillis gets ripped constantly for trading him, but at least he got something (Ballard+Oreskovich) for a guy that we didn't have a spot for.

Tallon traded for him, and then just let him walk as a waiver wire pickup to the Islanders a few months later."

This.

It has been conveniently forgotten that Grabner had zero trade value that summer.

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#18 JCDavies
July 01 2013, 02:34PM
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NM00 wrote:

Hamhuis made Ballard redundant.

In some ways, it is like the goalie situation. People can debate where the mistake was made. But it is quite clear in both situations that a big mistake was made SOMEWHERE in the process.

Definitely.

There was a spot for Ballard when the trade happened but Gillis should have dealt him sometime after the depth situation changed.

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#19 NM00
July 01 2013, 02:38PM
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@JCDavies

"It has been conveniently forgotten that Grabner had zero trade value that summer."

Just like people will conveniently forget Luongo has zero trade value right now?

Just like people will conveniently forget Connauton had limited trade value a few months ago?

Just like people will conveniently forget Hodgson had limited trade value in March 2012?

Hmmm I see a pattern emerging...

I'm sure you remember people suggesting Raymond would be traded and Grabner inserted in his spot because it was the 'Moneypuck' thing to do.

Gillis bought high on Raymond and sold low on Grabner.

As an isolated incident, it's a write off. But there is growing evidence that giving away Grabner is part of a growing trend of poor evaluations by the Gillis regime.

Can you take a guess if I prefer Hovart to Schneider?

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#20 JCDavies
July 01 2013, 03:01PM
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@NM00

There will obviously be debate about Luongo, but I don`t see anybody saying that about Connauton and Hodgson.

"I'm sure you remember people suggesting Raymond would be traded and Grabner inserted in his spot because it was the 'Moneypuck' thing to do."

I've said this myself (after the fact, mind you) but I don't know if many GMs would have traded away a 24-year-old 25 goal scorer to keep a unproven young forward that had only 29 games NHL experience and who was very likely to spend a lot of time in the press box if things didn't work out. Fans would've been all over Gillis for not doing everything possible to "win now".

" As an isolated incident, it's a write off. But there is growing evidence that giving away Grabner is part of a growing trend of poor evaluations by the Gillis regime.

Can you take a guess if I prefer Hovart to Schneider?"

Yeah. It's a little frustrating.

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#21 Hot Rod
July 01 2013, 03:56PM
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Gillis made an ok move to get out of a bad situation. The goalie issues were painful and a huge distraction. It bit them in the ass.

The deal for Schneids was OK. I would've been happy if NJ also gave their 2nd round pick as well. I'm surprised Philly didn't offer something more as he would be huge for them. Also glad we didn't deal him to Edmonton.

Gillis did well to brighten the team's future. What he didn't address, so far, is the present roster. I guess Ballard will be gone and we'll have a bit of cap room to mess with. It might be a blessing if we miss the playoffs next year and get another pick. Hopefully some of the players with no trade clauses ask to be dealt after a poor 2013-2014.

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#22 Lemming
July 01 2013, 05:36PM
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KleptoKlown wrote:

Hamhuis was not yet a Canuck. When GMMG acquired Ballard, it was thought he would be in the top 4. Also, the season before the Canucks traded for Ballard and signed Hamhuis, they had horrendous injuries all throughout their defensive core.

It's easy to say this was a bad trade today, but when it actually happend, the Canucks were desperate for defense, and no one was saying it was a bad trade. Gillis made the right choice in acquiring Ballard, no one could have known it would have played out this bad.

"no one was saying it was a bad trade"

As soon as I heard of the trade, I thought it was awful, so there was at least one. I thought Grabner was really coming along, he was a good, young, skilled player who could shoot and was/is one of the fastest and most explosive skaters in the league.

I remember the Grabner vs. Raymond arguments, and compared to how Luongo and Schneider played out, I'm sure it would have been much less controversial to keep both Raymond and Grabner around for another year or two...

Instead, we traded Grabner and a first round pick (albeit in a "shallow" draft) for a defenseman who I have never really seen anything that good from.

So yeah, I thought it was a bad trade as soon as I heard it. I definitely don't think Gillis is an awesome GM, and depending on how the next year or two goes, he'll probably be gone. We did get to the last game of the Stanley Cup Finals with him, before having a couple bumps in the road the past couple years, and how the team turns out in the very short term probably determines his employment status in Vancouver.

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#23 Sarcasm Mode
July 01 2013, 05:51PM
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Cleared up the goalie controversy? Not quite, Luongo feels unwanted ( boo hoo hoo ) and expected to be out of Vancouver. Now that he couldn't get dealt because he's an old over rated can't get it done goalie, Gillis and the owner too cheap to buy him out has to crawl back to Luo in desperation. What's going to happen next year when leak Lou lets in his usual softies that costs a few games? Maybe the team will have to trade him...oh wait, he's doesn't give a crap because he asked to be traded last year! What a combo, an untradeable goalie who doesn't play well and doesn't care anymore.

Expect to see this next year. Luongo either plays bad and the owner buys him out just to get rid of him, fires Gillis for the whole mess. Or..Luo plays bad and the owner can't and is too cheap to buy him out and you get to see leaky Luo leak all season like defective tampon. Either way, suffering is in store for all Canuck fans and Gillis will be fired sure enough.the SC drought will continue. You can't grow crops when your farmers are incompetent and constantly watering old dying plants that won't fruit.

Enjoy the job playing GM Mike, rest assured, it is safe to say that you will NEVER get another job in this or any other league as GM. Schneider for who? Watch that ox guy get his behind traded...unless he plays like crap, then of course, he's here to stay, just like the rest of the core.

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#24 Jamie E
July 01 2013, 07:07PM
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Wow.

Bit dressing around here. Wonder where all the folks have gone who were pulling for Gillis to keep Lu and trade Schneider because we could actually get something for Schneider?

Cheer up boys. It's just a game.

I think a bit of a history lesson is in order.

1) Luongo is signed to a 12 year back diving contract that lowers his cap hit significantly. Everyone hails Gillis as a bold genius. It's obvious to all involved that the Aqualini's were intimately involved.

2) Corey Schneider develops into a darn good goalie and Lu has marital issues that result in his asking for trade to an Eastern Conference team.

3) Vancouver fans scream from the roof tops that Gillis should demand a king's ransom for Lu.

4) Gillis tries hard to trade Lu but fails to consumate a deal before the lock-out. Vancouvef fans scoff at the notion of a trade for Bozak and Kadri. "We're not taking Leaf scraps for Lu!"

5) NHL locks out players. Many months pass. NHL and NHLPA agree to a deal that is highly punitive to back diving contracts, making Luongo all but untradeable. Some Canuck fans continue to believe Lu is both tradeable and should garner a strong return. Others frantically revise history and demand to know why we didn't take rumored previous deals with the lease.

6) The Aquilini's suddenly decide they own the Los Angeles Clippers and not the Vancouver Canucks. Refuse to pony up for a Lu buyout thus painting Gillis into an even more claustrophobic corner then he was already in.

7) Gillis trades Schneider instead for a top ten pick in a very deep draft and Canuck fans proceed to smear themselves in excrement and issue a fatwa on Gillis. No one rails against the weasel Bettman for going the extra mile to screw our franchise and no one criticizes our skinflint ownership. It's all Gillis's fault.

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#25 Van C. Native
July 01 2013, 07:57PM
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@Jamie E

Oh trust me, the ones pulling for Lu and Gillis are not the ones who want to skin their hides.

Keeping Lu and trading Schnieds so we can get something from him? Let's explore that point. We couldn't trade Lu cause no one in the rest of the league is dumb enough to want an old overpaid under achieving goalie like Lu. Now e trade Schneids and got "something" in return. Now we have still have an old over paid goalie who hasn't gotten it done, and so were are we going to get something to replace Schneids? Oh, right, we had that replacement but we TRADE HIM AWAY. One step forward, two steps back, that's the MO for this team, always has been , always will. So when Luo chokes, and he will choke, who will replace him after the owners fire Gillis and buy out Luongo? Oh yes, we can trade another potential key piece for a goalie again...TA DA1...back to square one. Deja Vu all over again and again and again. Scotty Bowman has said that winning championships starts with the owners. Well, it's obvious the problem here is not just the owners, it's the GM, the scouting staff, the coach AV, and of course, the players. They need to face the fact that mud and grease are not the ingredients you use to make a cake. Going to be another fail season next year, can see it a mile away. Feel so sorry for Torts, he has no idea what he's gotten himself in.

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#26 Van C. Native
July 01 2013, 08:09PM
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I forgot to tally up the score -

Luongo - over paid, doesn't care if he gets traded, doesn't want to be here , guaranteed a bed of money whether he wins or loses.

Owner - Had to fly back and crawl back to Luongo with his tail between his legs cause he's to cheap to buy him out and no one wants Luongo and his contract

Gillis - Knows he will never get another job in the league again, knows he will get fired soon enough, doesn't care if the team or GM place or the city burns down.

Score, Luongo +1 Ownership 0 Gillis -1 Fans -45 years and counting

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#27 NM00
July 01 2013, 08:10PM
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@Jamie E

"Luongo is signed to a 12 year back diving contract that lowers his cap hit significantly. Everyone hails Gillis as a bold genius"

What? A lot of people thought the contract was ridiculous at the time. Everyone did not hail Gillis as a bold genius.

"Corey Schneider develops into a darn good goalie and Lu has marital issues that result in his asking for trade to an Eastern Conference team."

Again. What?

"Vancouver fans scream from the roof tops that Gillis should demand a king's ransom for Lu."

The vocal minority wanted Lou gone for a bag of pucks before Twitter redeemed his reputation. Do you not remember the venom spewed in his direction not long ago?

"Gillis tries hard to trade Lu but fails to consumate a deal before the lock-out. Vancouvef fans scoff at the notion of a trade for Bozak and Kadri. "We're not taking Leaf scraps for Lu!"

Again. WTF?

"NHL and NHLPA agree to a deal that is highly punitive to back diving contracts, making Luongo all but untradeable."

The new CBA allows the Canucks to retain as much salary as they wish if they want to move Lou. The new CBA has not hurt the Canucks. It has rightly punished the Canucks and other teams for cap circumvention.

"The Aquilini's suddenly decide they own the Los Angeles Clippers and not the Vancouver Canucks. Refuse to pony up for a Lu buyout."

It's a business. Grow up.

"No one rails against the weasel Bettman for going the extra mile to screw our franchise."

Bettman works for the owners. He warned there would be hell to pay with a new CBA. Too many people ignore the fact he has a difficult job trying to maintain the health of the league in the face of owners acting running their franchises like infants.

Other than that, you are correct.

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#28 Lemming
July 01 2013, 08:34PM
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I notice how people call Lu "underacheiving", as if Schneider has actually won all sorts of awards and trophies.

Schneider has won nothing either, and on top of that was the starting goalie by the end of the playoffs not on the virtue of his strong play (Luongo outplayed Schneider in the past two playoffs), but because was "their guy".

Schneider isn't god. Remember when everyone was calling Luongo the goalie of the future when he first got here? Now look at how many of you hate his guts.

And now we all see why we're the goalie graveyard, over 40 years and counting, because people in Vancouver can't accept anything less than a 0.00GAA and 100% save% from their goalie.

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#29 Van C. Native
July 01 2013, 09:31PM
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@Lemming

Ok let's look at his trophies. Olympic gold? I counter that with his swimming to let in the tying goal, only to be saved by Sid the kid. And yes, that wasn't an ordinary team, in fact the opposite. When you are playing on essentially an all star team, you don't have to be a great goalie to win, and Luongo was not great.That's like playing on the US basketball dream team and playing against Bulgaria.

What else has Luongo won? League trophies? they don't count, only the SC counts. Every player is measured on that, no one is exempt from it.

Let's look at Schneids now, hard to see how he could have performed better seeing as how AV kept putting Luongo back in for his finals meltdwons. Luongo lost all away games and to top off that masterpiece, lost game 7 at home as well. Next year against LA Schneids only won one game. Luongo didn't even register a win, too busy with leaky goals. The next year they both lost 2 games to SF. Based on that can you say Luongo is better? Cory is younger, cheaper and plays just as well for the little ice time he's given. Luongo? Six or more years of meltdowns against chicago, boston, LA and SF. Did you forget all those performances?

That is WHY the fans wanted Luongo out. And now, after being exposed by Boston, the Canucks and their hardcore fans want to give him another 6 years. How charitable. So, if I worked for you company and could not do what I'm paid millions to do for 6 years, you would want me back for another 6 , right? While the Van fans were busy tolerating players like Lu, Brodeur was quietly winning 4 cups. What has Luo done in that time? With Van or Florida? At least Brodeur has something to show for all those years, Luongo, 0. And there are people who still want him for another decade?

My suggestion to Luongo is to start trying to stop pucks for a change, and if he spent just as much energy on stopping the puck as he does trying to be funny and " woah is me "with his Strombone1 twitter account, just maybe, just maybe he would actually win crucial games for a change. Luongo is just another glorfied Kirk Mclean. Has he made great saves? Sure, any goalie in the league has made great saves..the problem is the soft bush league goals he lets in in almost every game. When the team plays well, he looks great, when the team plays average, he absolutely stinks to high heaven. Thomas wants to come back now, maybe Strombone1 can call him to ask if he can get his tires pumped.

Luongo was called the goalie of the future, he has proven he is NOT. Shall we give him another 6 more years to prove you wrong? And after that, another 6 years? How long do you expect to live on planet earth? Why cheer for a team if the chances are you'll be dead long before the team wins the SC? It's been almost a half a century now, if you aren't concerned about that, then why cheer for that team to begin with? We are a goalie graveyard because along with crap over rated country club teams, we have never has a good enough goalie. Look at mclean, he had the biggest fivehole in all of the western world, and yet he was the Canucks starter for how many years? After he, Linden and Lumee were traded, how did their careers go? Nadda, complete invisibility, and look back at alllll those years the fans wasted with Quinns country club. And you guys blame Messier and Keenan for exposing the mess that was here? How much more TIME do the fans here want to WASTE? Wasting it away with players whom have proven they can't get it done. If we had half a decent golaie we could have won that 7th game against NY, but no, captain kirk and his fivehole. Stand up goalie..he couldn't even do a simple split or close his legs.

And with Bettman...we don't need Bettman to screw us over, this Team and its GM and AV and it's scouts and it's players do a damn fine job at that. Torts is going to say to himself next year " What the F&*K have I gotten myself in?" Ah man, all that wasted time. When is Vancouver going to man up and be a man franchise instead of a mickey mouse one? No, let's just trade away the future and stick with proven losers. How can anyone disagree with a plan like that?

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#30 Lemming
July 01 2013, 10:23PM
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@Van C. Native

Exhibit 1: the Vancouver fan who expects perfection. You are exactly who I was talking about. You have ridiculous expectations for any goalie, be it Luongo, Brodeur, Schneider, Thomas, or any other goalie.

No goalie can do what you're asking all the time. None. Not a single one. Stop thinking you're going to get a goalie like that. I can't even respond to anything else you've said because it's just that ridiculous.

I'm not calling Luongo the best option, the best goalie, or anything. He's not a bad goalie though, and he does give the Canucks a chance to win, no matter what ridiculous expectations you have of him.

People are worried about Aquillini calling the shots, but outraged fans calling for blood calling the shots are a million times worse. Thank god Gillis doesn't have to listen to you.

Also, the word is "woe", as in "woe is me". I'm glad I could teach you a new word today, because "woah is me" doesn't make a lick of sense. Doesn't surprise me that you never stopped think about it though.

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#31 rightfiSh
July 01 2013, 11:34PM
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Mike Gillis should be the Director of Player Devlopment.

Not General Manager.

I like what he's done with the scouting staff & i like the improvement that nearly every player in the organization has shown during the time he's been GM however... he should not be GM.

He forms a personal bond with his players. He's way too intimate with them, and it clouds his judgement. He's unable to make cold calcuted decisions with his players or personnel for that matter. He shows way too much loyalty.

If you wonder what a real General Manager of a hockey club looks like, look no further then the man on the opposite end of the Schneider trade, Lou Lamoriello.

Mike Gillis would be better suited developing young players; not signing them to contracts and holding trade negotiations. He sucks at both those things.

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#32 pheenster
July 01 2013, 11:35PM
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NM00 wrote:

The real question is why didn't Gillis use Schneider & Hodgson to get into the bidding for Jeff Carter's services to improve the team in front of Luongo.

Like I said over at NM, your basic premise (why wasn't Schneider used to improve the team in front of Luongo) is difficult to argue with. But like I also said, everyone has 20/20 hindsight.

Maybe the Canucks didn't like Carter's reputed affinity for snorting white powder off prostitutes' tasty bits. Maybe they didn't have the cap space. Maybe Lu was nursing an injury and they were concerned about going into the playoffs with question marks at the backup position. Maybe one of a hundred things that you and I know nothing about, and never will.

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#33 NM00
July 02 2013, 12:49AM
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@rightfiSh

Gillis developed Hodgson, Grabner & Connauton.

Wait a second...

Gillis has not been good at developing young players, either.

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#34 NM00
July 02 2013, 12:53AM
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@pheenster

I use Carter because it's a prominent player whom we both know was available for the right pieces.

Gillis had better pieces, I'd argue, than Lombardi. But he has since diluted both assets.

And, again, none of this is hindsight. It always made sense to use Schneider to improve the team in front of Luongo.

Gillis figured it out, too. Eventually.

Gillis wasted two years of the Schneider asset when the Canucks were at the peak of the win curve.

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#35 Van C. Native
July 02 2013, 01:41AM
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@Lemming

I don't expect perfection, those meltdowns he had in all those series is far from perfection.Those are not ridiculous expectations, it's called competing, and what Luongo does is not competing but choking.

Every year a goalie wins the stanley cup, every year. So it's not true, it is possible once every year, every time.

I'm not going to think that way because I , unlike this team and many of its fans, have a thing called standards.

Luongo isn't good enough, well proven in the play offs, it's time to MOVE ON. A dud is a dud. Luongo is a dud, dud's do not bring you no championship.

And yes, I know it's woe and not waoh..but I like to say woah, cause it's more fun. Woooaaaaaaah is me. Hope it reminds you of me the next time you see it, and you will see that reaction to dud number 1 next year.

Question. When are you as a fan ever going to have something all SC teams have...something called STANDARDS? I know i have it, and I know Luongo just don't cut it.

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#36 Van C. Native
July 02 2013, 01:53AM
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@Lemming

And trust me, winners don't think the way the Canucks and you think. Competition is never easy, but if you settle for anything short of #1, you will always end up anything but #1, guaranteed.

The " it's too hard to win " mentality serves no one but losers.

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#37 Sarcasm Mode
July 02 2013, 02:41AM
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Just saw john Garret on sportsnet talk about how he thinks Schneids is " unproven" in the post season. Fair enough, you can;t prove yourself when the other guy gets almost all the ice time and you're the back up. Guess Garret forgot to mention that Luongo is a proven goalie...proven to everyone that he doesn't have what it takes to get it done.

So the Canucks traded Schneids who hasn't even been given one full season here, unproven in the play offs and keep a proven dud in Luongo. Nice. Now all Gillis has to do is to convince a dud who doesn't even want to be here to play for the team. I'm sure Luongo really cares to play for a team he wants out of, a team that isn't going to pump his deflated tires anymore. I'm sure if Leaky Luo has a string of bad games, he will fear being bench or getting traded, thus elevating his play...oh wait, LUONGO DOESN'T EVEN WANT TO BE HERE! Way to go, Canucks, trade away good players, keep players who don't even want to be here, here. I'M SOLD! WHERE CAN I BUY SEASON TICKETS TO FOR THE NEXT MELTDOWN? I HAVEN'T SEEN ENOUGH OF LUO'S MELTDOWNS AND THE TWINS GETTING PUSHED AROUND! MORE PLEASE, MORE!

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#38 Common Stick
July 02 2013, 07:52AM
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@Jackson

Those " prospects" are always a couple of yrs away from making the Canucks team. Couple of years, couple of years, BAM! TRADED AWAY for something that is useless or a couple of years away from the NHL. Insert and repeat again. BAM!

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