STUPID FLYERS WIN, COYOTES TO STAY PUT?

Wanye
June 05 2010 07:35PM

Stupid Flyers tie up the stupid series and stupid Pronger probably thinks his puck stealing antics might have tipped the scales. And now the NHL - who had a great idea with this backwards footage commercials - pump them out like there's no tomorrow.

UGH.

Instead of debating that into the ground, lets talk some more about the City of Glendale, which is determined to hang on to it's beloved Coyotes regardless of cost or how hooped their economy already is.

FIRST THE FACTS

Pity if you will for a moment the conundrum of Glendale, Arizona, with the City of Winnipeg charging hard to reclaim the Jets and bring them back to the ice and snow. Add in the NHL, impossibly owning the team and looking for every reason to keep an unprofitable US franchise firmly in place. You know cause that long awaited National TV deal is right around the corner.

Finally there is the City of Glendale looking to do anything and everything possible to entice a new owner to come to Arizona and piddle their money away for another decade.

Since the Coyotes moved to Glendale in 2003 they have reportedly has lost $200 million-plus. This is amazing when you consider that the team moved out to Glendale from it's original arena with the vague idea they would make more money in a new arena. Enter the spaciously elegant - and heavily subsidized - jobing.com arena with it's luxury boxes, luxury seats and luxury towncars.

Sounds like a recipe to print money right?

Wrong.

Two years after the move into the new arena Coyotes owner Steve Ellman seemed to understand that the team wasn't going to make money until the Mayan Calendar turns over again, so he sold the team to trucking magnate Jerry Moyes in 2005.

Moyes continued the tradition of cheerfully propping up team losses until his natonal trucking company got shellacked by the one two punch of increased fuel prices and decreased freight traffic due to the overall crappiness of the American economy, which we estimates looks like this:

Which also had the effect of making the Glendale property prices go like this:

 

The fortunes of the Coyotes haven't been helped by the Coyotes themselves, who have played something like this:

And now Glendale faces the real chance the Coyotes will leave town unless their spending to subsidize the team goes like this:

Which, amongst cash strapped and underwater Glendale citizens is about as popular as this:

But knowing that the Coyotes are the anchor tenant of a half built entertainment district that can't attract financing already Glendale is in a real pickle. The hope that the sports and entertainment distruct will ultimately bring in much needed tax dollars and  help put the City back on it's feet has left the City Council looking something like this:

AND NOW THE DEBATE

Knowing all of this background information, one has to admire the Glendale City Council. These cats are determined to work with the NHL (who is in an extraordinary conflict of interest owning the franchise) and Ice Edge Holdings, which is in the running to keep the team in the desert for the forseeable future.

Together they are "working on the major parts of the deal," which is getting more lopsided and unbelievable by the day.

Under the terms of a Memorandum of Understanding just released recently by the City of Glendale:

"The Buyer (of the Coyotes) will assign to the City ... the right to manage, operate and receive revenues of the Parking Improvements and the related parking facilities for the Arena.

The (City of Glendale) will pay the Buyer an annual fee for granting the City the right to manage and operate the Parking Improvements (the “Parking Operations Fee”), which shall be payable in monthly installments equal to the amount of net parking fees collected, with any amount of the Parking Operations Fee not paid in monthly installments paid in full at year end."

Yes, yes. We can hear you now:

"Well that's just fantastic Wanye. You have sullied my weekend with heavy graphing and a smattering of legalese. Condense it down for a fella will you?"

This basically means that the City of Glendale is going to guarantee the Coyotes $7.5 million per season in parking revenue as part of a larger strategic plan to "bend-over-backwards-and-take-one-in-the-rear."

If that isn't enough - along with a heavily subsidized arena to begin with - the City is also prepared to guarantee $10 million in additional losses annually.

COMPARING PHX TO EDM

When people speak of the City of Edmonton "wasting money on an NHL team" by owning the proposed arena, we think it's important to look at what wasting money really looks like. The civic debt of Glendale, AZ is twice the national average during a time when virtually every City Council in the US gulp nervously when their own debt comes for renewal. 

Everyone who lives in a City that can ill afford to be throwing more money after bad please stand up:

Exactly.

We would have to say that this type of fiscal activity borders on reckless, considering the dire financial state of the City of Glendale and the amount of money it has already pumped into the area.

The City has bet big on Pro Sports being a large part of the service economy in the City of only 225,000 tax payers, having been a large part of the continued funding of the Coyotes, the Jobing.com arena, an NFL arena and a pair of spring training facilities.

WHOOPS

It is becoming increasingly clear that the plan has failed and the people of Glendale are starting to freak out too. 

Reports the Arizona Republic:

"I think (the City Council of Glendale) did do a good job for a while," said (Glendale Resient) Jones, 77. "But this wild spending ... they went overboard. Their legacy will be they are the people that have left Glendale hopelessly in debt." Jones is referring to the hundreds of millions of dollars Glendale invested to turn farm fields in the western part of the city into a bustling sports and entertainment district.

The area is now home to professional football and hockey, spring-training baseball and dozens of new restaurants and businesses, bringing jobs and tax revenue along the way.

And, as the economy falters, the city's promises for the area's growth have not all panned out. The shopping complex Westgate City Center is behind its building schedule, the Phoenix Coyotes were on the verge of leaving after the hockey team's owner declared bankruptcy this summer and the retail center planned around the spring-training ballpark hasn't broken ground.

The developer, HB Equities LLC, still can't find financing. Jones is worried that Glendale's debt levels could endanger funding for services like police, sewers or streetlights, though city officials have repeatedly touted plans to pay off debt quickly without impact on services to residents."

IN CONCLUSION WE CONCLUDE

Increasingly the fortunes of Cities and their Pro Sports teams have become more and more intertwined. Down in Glendale they have a City of a quarter million residents, with little economic momentum who has already pumped hundreds of millions into four seperate stadiums, a heavily subsidized sports and entertainment district and has footed the bill for parts of the operations of its Pro teams.

Here in conservative ol' Edmonton we have an arena that was funded jointly by City, Provincial and Federal dollars waaaaay back in 1974.  In the 36 years hence, it is fair to say that this building has been paid off and owes the tax payers of the three governments little if anything else.

The long and steady utilization of the publicly funded arena for nearly a half of a century hardly smacks of financial mismanagement. A repeat of the project some 40 years later will result in a similar run of prosperous operation until the year 2054 if the building lives to be the same age.

And unlike the fortunes of Glendale, things seem to be mercifully stable up here in the frozen snow.

Did we mention we hate Chris Pronger? And love arenas? And feel sorry for Glendale?

Good. Now it's time to go out and party.

09049f03ecb006ab29372206f2a88f75
Blog so hard motherf**ckers try and find me. Email me at wanyegretz@gmail.com or tweet me @wanyegretz provided it is about Jordan Eberle or babes.
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#51 Matt Henderson
June 07 2010, 11:27AM
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Wanye wrote:

Dude,

As if Hall would refuse to sign as the first draft pick. Lindros takes the cake as "the only idiot to ever pull that stunt that I can remember at the moment" and even he made overtures that Quebec had better trade him agest in advance.

He'd sign here. He may prefer to play elsewhere but he'd sign.

I agree, but he wont be signing here unless the Oil offer up an RFA sheet in 3 years.

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#52 KB
June 07 2010, 11:45AM
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@TigerUnderGlass

I am cheering for Chicago because "if they can do it, we can do it"...they give me hope for the possibility of the Oilers properly rebuilding and developing into a cup contender in the future.

Plus, there is something about Philly that I just don't like.

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#53 Milli
June 07 2010, 12:16PM
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KB wrote:

I am cheering for Chicago because "if they can do it, we can do it"...they give me hope for the possibility of the Oilers properly rebuilding and developing into a cup contender in the future.

Plus, there is something about Philly that I just don't like.

Ya, although I am cheering the Flyers (due to the amount of cash I will win) looking at the Hawks is exciting for what the future could be, might be, oh hell, FOR WHAT THE FUTURE WILL BE!!!!!

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#54 Eddie Shore
June 07 2010, 12:47PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Some interesting tidbits from Matty in the Journal today:

- suggests not a lot of teams lining up for Souray (no surprise), but mentions the Sharks & Devils as possibilities... says Sharks would likely offer up D Kent Huskins ($1.7M) & F Torrey Mitchell ($1.3M).
- suggests Oil dangle #31 to CHI for F Kris Versteeg.
- Oilers won't be resigning F Vlad Trukhno or F Geoff Paukauvich, and may let Ryan O'Marra go in favour of Colin McDonald.
- the word on D John Scott is he's a great dressing-room prescence who can often be found doing crossword puzzles an hour after the game; also trying to finish his degree in engineering.
- says you can bet the Oilers are asking Boston about Blake Wheeler and/or #15 in any talks of swapping picks, but also mentions 23 yr old 6'5" RW Mikko Lehtonen down on the farm.

I'll do a naked rain dance down Jasper Avenue if that will help us get Versteeg from the Hawks.

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#55 TigerUnderGlass
June 07 2010, 01:07PM
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Milli wrote:

Ya, although I am cheering the Flyers (due to the amount of cash I will win) looking at the Hawks is exciting for what the future could be, might be, oh hell, FOR WHAT THE FUTURE WILL BE!!!!!

See now that is a great reason to cheer for the Flyers. Unfortunately I never bet on Eastern conference teams, even when I want them to win. (ie. TB vs Calgary)

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#56 Milli
June 07 2010, 01:22PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

See now that is a great reason to cheer for the Flyers. Unfortunately I never bet on Eastern conference teams, even when I want them to win. (ie. TB vs Calgary)

I'd love to say it's cuz I'm so smart, but, was reading a Gregor article at the start of the playoffs about the Pronger effect and I was also looking for an upset special, seemed to go together, and man do I look smart now!

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#57 Rusty Duggan
June 07 2010, 01:33PM
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I love listening to Bob Stauffer's insight...very plugged in to the team, so I'm putting my vote in for him to take over for Roddy. Better get a ton of water Bobby, and your partner will need a spit shield. LOL, still the guy though.

Weird thing about Bob though is his stance on the draft. Question: If this draft was 5 years ago and Stauffer was still on the radio, who would he be lobbying to get here? I think it's obvious.

Is the Edmonton sports media doing favours for Tambo....trying to create diversions?

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#58 Matt Henderson
June 07 2010, 01:39PM
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@Rusty Duggan

I cant see how the Edmonton sports media is helping Tambellini. Stauffer, Brownlee, Gregor, and the morning guys are all strongly hinting that the Oilers are leaning towards Seguin. If they were trying to help Tambi then I would expect the opposite, considering the Bruins want Hall more than Seguin.

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#59 Deep Oil
June 07 2010, 01:40PM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

I agree, but he wont be signing here unless the Oil offer up an RFA sheet in 3 years.

Achaeology, you must have alzheimers based on your name, every hear of Jaret Stoll, your Lindros reference to the only idiot is very small minded, if a player so chooses to exercise their collective bargaining rights as acquired by the nhlpa, the go fly a kite, but get into this century or go cry to Lindro's parents, you are so off base it is IDIOTIC.

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#60 Rusty Duggan
June 07 2010, 01:50PM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

I cant see how the Edmonton sports media is helping Tambellini. Stauffer, Brownlee, Gregor, and the morning guys are all strongly hinting that the Oilers are leaning towards Seguin. If they were trying to help Tambi then I would expect the opposite, considering the Bruins want Hall more than Seguin.

I've been listening to Stauffer since day one. In the past he was the guy that always challenged management. I can't help but think he would be screaming HALL at Tambo through his microphone in different circumstances. The "watered down version" of him won't say squat.

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#61 Matt Henderson
June 07 2010, 02:01PM
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Deep Oil wrote:

Achaeology, you must have alzheimers based on your name, every hear of Jaret Stoll, your Lindros reference to the only idiot is very small minded, if a player so chooses to exercise their collective bargaining rights as acquired by the nhlpa, the go fly a kite, but get into this century or go cry to Lindro's parents, you are so off base it is IDIOTIC.

Did you just guzzle some Nyquil? I never even mentioned Lindros. My original comment and the one you quoted were made with the implication that Hall wont sign here because the Oilers wont acquire his rights. As in THEY ARE SELECTING SEGUIN, NOT HALL.

Pull your Sh*t together.

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#62 TigerUnderGlass
June 07 2010, 02:09PM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

Did you just guzzle some Nyquil? I never even mentioned Lindros. My original comment and the one you quoted were made with the implication that Hall wont sign here because the Oilers wont acquire his rights. As in THEY ARE SELECTING SEGUIN, NOT HALL.

Pull your Sh*t together.

What I found really interesting about Deep Oil's comment, aside from it's irrelevance, was that until now I had no idea Stoll was a number one pick.

The things you learn when Deep Oil comes to play.

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#63 Deep Oil
June 07 2010, 02:10PM
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@Wanye

So what you are saying in the conclusion of your musing is that you think that public funds should be offered when the examples Laforge and Black put forward institute a 80 - 20 partnership, with the private venture coming up with the cake. City takes the risk, and the incremental tax revenue of $14 million on 1 billion dollars will not cover the interest...... say what yee.....

Columbus Lighthouse NYI Chicago United Center LA LIVE

If you search ballparks.com, you will be presented with the funding equation. Note Columbus have lost $80 million AFTER their new building.

Oilers can't leave town, must be offered first to a local group under NHL MO, see PHX as per your own reference.

So what you are saying is that you want (need is not a word you can use here), a new arena so 17 000 people can have exclusive use on concerts and other activities outside of hockey, as Oiler season ticket holders have first dibs on events.

How about the fans contribute a Personal Seat License for these WANTS, how about the owner put $100 million in trust as a form of goodwill or negotiating tactic instead of blinking or changing the game as it's played. Staples center was built with upfront naming rights money, what about the $75 million over the next 25 years that will be acrued, who deserves the coin, batman or the city ?

Gimmme Gimmme Gimmmer, and when do I hear from the nation faithful about the high cost of beer at RX2, the inflated evening parking by the worm farmers in downtown edmonton, or dropping $30 for the buffet, instead of $12.95.

As a Scottsdale resident, your reference to the Yotes lacked substance in terms of geographical placement - the arena was free, the land was free, and 45 minutes from Scottsdale. Formula to market to farmers equates to a business loss from day one.

Ellman did not sell the coyotes to Moyes, he surrended them. Ellman had the option fo the Los Arcos property but took free over input.

Bottom line to Edmonton is there is risk involved in building an arena for a private operator that wishes to pay no rent. When there is no ultimatum to leave, as it is impossible to do so, the tables are turned.

I am just waiting for the next city that TEAM OIL is going to refer to at the next radio hit, and embarrass themselves again.

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#64 Deep Oil
June 07 2010, 02:11PM
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@tigerunderglass

so how do you know hall is a number one pick, join the nostradamous club TUG

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#65 Eddie Shore
June 07 2010, 02:16PM
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@Matt Henderson

Great.. you woke him up.

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#66 Matt Henderson
June 07 2010, 02:18PM
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@Eddie Shore

Yeah, I guess that one is on me. Sorry guys.

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#67 yegCopywriter
June 07 2010, 02:20PM
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Wait, Deep Oil is from Scottsdale?

*realizes it's been dementia all along*

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#68 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 07 2010, 02:22PM
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Deep Oil wrote:

So what you are saying in the conclusion of your musing is that you think that public funds should be offered when the examples Laforge and Black put forward institute a 80 - 20 partnership, with the private venture coming up with the cake. City takes the risk, and the incremental tax revenue of $14 million on 1 billion dollars will not cover the interest...... say what yee.....

Columbus Lighthouse NYI Chicago United Center LA LIVE

If you search ballparks.com, you will be presented with the funding equation. Note Columbus have lost $80 million AFTER their new building.

Oilers can't leave town, must be offered first to a local group under NHL MO, see PHX as per your own reference.

So what you are saying is that you want (need is not a word you can use here), a new arena so 17 000 people can have exclusive use on concerts and other activities outside of hockey, as Oiler season ticket holders have first dibs on events.

How about the fans contribute a Personal Seat License for these WANTS, how about the owner put $100 million in trust as a form of goodwill or negotiating tactic instead of blinking or changing the game as it's played. Staples center was built with upfront naming rights money, what about the $75 million over the next 25 years that will be acrued, who deserves the coin, batman or the city ?

Gimmme Gimmme Gimmmer, and when do I hear from the nation faithful about the high cost of beer at RX2, the inflated evening parking by the worm farmers in downtown edmonton, or dropping $30 for the buffet, instead of $12.95.

As a Scottsdale resident, your reference to the Yotes lacked substance in terms of geographical placement - the arena was free, the land was free, and 45 minutes from Scottsdale. Formula to market to farmers equates to a business loss from day one.

Ellman did not sell the coyotes to Moyes, he surrended them. Ellman had the option fo the Los Arcos property but took free over input.

Bottom line to Edmonton is there is risk involved in building an arena for a private operator that wishes to pay no rent. When there is no ultimatum to leave, as it is impossible to do so, the tables are turned.

I am just waiting for the next city that TEAM OIL is going to refer to at the next radio hit, and embarrass themselves again.

No one cares.

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#69 Poo Czar
June 07 2010, 02:24PM
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Sometimes Deep Oil is a funny/interesting kind of crazy. And sometimes he's this.

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#70 Eddie Shore
June 07 2010, 02:25PM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

Kudos to you for even reading that nonsense.

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#71 Dyckster
June 07 2010, 02:25PM
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Deep Oil wrote:

@tigerunderglass

so how do you know hall is a number one pick, join the nostradamous club TUG

At worst Hall will go second, Stoll went 46th the first time around and 36th the second. Using Taylor Hall in context with Lindros is reasonable. Comparing Hall to Stoll is not.

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#72 Hemmertime
June 07 2010, 02:27PM
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@Matt Henderson

Hall would sign here, we'd have him for minimum 7 years. If he was worth it we would match any RFA offer. Buffalo or Burke might go for revenge by raising the amount but we'd match.

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#73 Matt Henderson
June 07 2010, 02:37PM
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Hemmertime wrote:

Hall would sign here, we'd have him for minimum 7 years. If he was worth it we would match any RFA offer. Buffalo or Burke might go for revenge by raising the amount but we'd match.

Unfortunately I will now explain myself for the 3rd time.*

Hall WOULD sign here, if the Oilers were actually going to select him in the draft. However, the Bruins would have an issue with us trying to sign a player they drafted 2nd overall.

*There seems to be something wrong with the subtlety receptors of Oilersnation readers today.

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#74 TigerUnderGlass
June 07 2010, 02:41PM
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Deep Oil wrote:

@tigerunderglass

so how do you know hall is a number one pick, join the nostradamous club TUG

Most likely I know this because if a situation arose where Hall was refusing to sign with the Oilers then he would have been selected with the first overall pick.

You never fail to amaze me with your staggering ability to ignore logic. Most of us sort of look away from it once in a while, but you have made an apparent lifelong practice of pretending it doesn't even exist.

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#75 TigerUnderGlass
June 07 2010, 02:47PM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

Unfortunately I will now explain myself for the 3rd time.*

Hall WOULD sign here, if the Oilers were actually going to select him in the draft. However, the Bruins would have an issue with us trying to sign a player they drafted 2nd overall.

*There seems to be something wrong with the subtlety receptors of Oilersnation readers today.

~Wait....what? I heard Hall won't sign here because Sam Gagner slept with his mother. What does that have to do with the Bruins?~

You know, I hate using the squigglys. It feels weird to have to spell out my sarcasm.

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#76 Matt Henderson
June 07 2010, 02:51PM
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@TigerUnderGlass

I thought I didnt have to use the tildes with my original comment. I was obviously wrong.

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#77 deepoil
June 07 2010, 03:08PM
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Dyckster wrote:

At worst Hall will go second, Stoll went 46th the first time around and 36th the second. Using Taylor Hall in context with Lindros is reasonable. Comparing Hall to Stoll is not.

Maybe Orr has picked up the phone and told Tambellini The Tantrum that Edmonton is not on their radar, forcing their hand, noting a team called the Boston Bruins hold the 2nd pick, I seem to recall some history with Orr and the Bruins....... and this just in, Chris Pronger declines to attend Hockey Canada's Golf and Gala due to family reasons.......

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#78 Dyckster
June 07 2010, 03:25PM
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deepoil wrote:

Maybe Orr has picked up the phone and told Tambellini The Tantrum that Edmonton is not on their radar, forcing their hand, noting a team called the Boston Bruins hold the 2nd pick, I seem to recall some history with Orr and the Bruins....... and this just in, Chris Pronger declines to attend Hockey Canada's Golf and Gala due to family reasons.......

Liquid Lunch?

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#79 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 07 2010, 03:26PM
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deepoil wrote:

Maybe Orr has picked up the phone and told Tambellini The Tantrum that Edmonton is not on their radar, forcing their hand, noting a team called the Boston Bruins hold the 2nd pick, I seem to recall some history with Orr and the Bruins....... and this just in, Chris Pronger declines to attend Hockey Canada's Golf and Gala due to family reasons.......

Are people supposed to care that Pronger isn't golfing?

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#80 yegCopywriter
June 07 2010, 04:03PM
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@Matt Henderson

It's funny, I even commented to explain your original comment. There's a whole lot of skimming going on here today.

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#81 Matt Henderson
June 07 2010, 04:11PM
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@yegCopywriter

I know. I'm glad at least ONE person understood what I said before I had to explain it.

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#82 Ogden Bothered
June 07 2010, 05:01PM
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Whenever I read Deep Oil's commentary I feel like I'm listening to AM 1260's version of Coast to Coast AM.

Conspiracy Sport Blogging is a niche I don't think I needed filled.

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#83 Wanyes bastard child
June 07 2010, 05:21PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Are people supposed to care that Pronger isn't golfing?

Pronger isn't declining, his wife is. She heard it was set in Edmonton.

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